Route duration increases on curvy profiles

[lucvl5]

I do all planning on my smartphone and noticed that the route duration is increasing with every change in the route, even when you go for faster or shorten the route. My inefficient solution was exporting the route, importing it in the old kurviger, adding a waypoint on the route and a new, correct calculation was made. Then export again and import in cruiser. Changing the route then again in cruiser started adding time again even when making it shorter. Any suggestions?
Thanks.

[devemux86]

@lucvl5 Thanks for the report.

• Can you post an example route (as json)?

• And the steps you are taking to change it?

• Also post your app profile json file.

[lucvl5]

test 8u.json

[devemux86]

Route duration is calculated from BRouter, so we cannot know why it returns such duration.

@lucvl5 Select "Average speed" in "Settings | Routing | Advanced | Route duration".

[lucvl5]

Maybe the steps needed for a correct duration are:
Plan the route in curvy or extra curvy.
Export and import again with overlay
Change to fastest route planning
See where the route deviates from the overlay and correct with shaping points.
At least the duration would be correct i hope.
I doubt that average speed in settings would haven an impact because it is already high (63km/h where our average is around 40 in the alps, including partial off road). But good to know and I'll test it next time.
And again, thanks for your fantastic navigation software. I've tried a number of them, including garmin, sygic, the new kurviger,... but yours is simply the best. Congratulations are in order

[devemux86]

@lucvl5

Route duration in Cruiser can come from 3 sources in "Settings | Routing | Advanced | Route duration":

• Calculated route
  (duration is calculated from BRouter)
• Average speed
• Average speed (recorded)

You can select your own average speed in the same screen or use your exact recorded average speed,
so the route duration can be customized to your own driving style.

[Ciutnik]

@devemux86

Select "Average speed" in "Settings | Routing | Advanced | Route duration".

I meant to ask a long time ago, but... I forgot: Why can't the average speed at this point be the one calculated by the application? I understand that in the first minutes/kilometers after resetting the average the result would be false, but over time it would become very accurate. Especially since this value is probably not reset often.

This was the case with my old navigation system and after some time, the calculated time of arrival at the destination differed from the actual one by literally a few minutes (with a total time of several hours!) 🙂

[devemux86]

@Ciutnik Thanks, this is an interesting idea.

[0709wiwiwi]

but over time it would become very accurate.

Through the avg MOVING speed ?

[Ciutnik]

@0709wiwiwi

Through the avg MOVING speed

At first glance this seems obvious, but it could also be that my old GPS "learned" my driving style and also took into account refueling or rest breaks. Maybe the overall average was calculated, including stops, but only during active navigation? Many times I surprised my friends by giving the time of a 400 km journey with an accuracy of 5 minutes 🙂

[devemux86]

BRouter's kinematic model seems to miscalculate the duration when avoidance options are too strong.
So something needs to be improved here, probably in BRouter code or profile.

cc @afischerdev

---

In next update, the driving app profiles with BRouter will use the average speed for the route duration.

[devemux86]

@lucvl5 BRouter currently may return increased duration in driving profiles.

Your report was about this anyway. We cannot ask users to change options to fix something.
App must always display correct results.

When the response by BRouter will be fixed, we can allow the option again in driving profiles.

[devemux86]

There was a similar report:

• Route duration not correct - routing problems #840

Driving 167 km in 15+ hours is not right.

[bios4]

There was a similar report

Also from me, see here...

[lucvl5]

But a question remains: why does the old kurviger give a perfect duration calculation?

[0709wiwiwi]

why does the old kurviger give a perfect duration calculation?

Your Kurviger 1 app workaround recalculates by Kurviger web online. (A GH router with curvy profiles).
Cruiser has no connection to the Kurviger web service.

[WolfgangZ42]

Even though the accuracy of the ETA isn't that important to me, I think we've gotten worse since the change. In Car profile, I define “Calculated route” and was up to now happy with it. Since the change, however, always “Average speed” is used, which is less useful, especially if urban roads and highways are part of the same route. I think it's not enough that the time is correct shortly before reaching the destination, but is off by hours shortly after departure.

Currently, I help myself by defining “Average speed” with 90 km/h as "Static speed" without using the function (panel) itself. This results unfortunately in the same ETA being calculated, regardless of whether the highway is used or not:

. . .

In my opinion, “Calculated route” would work better, a test in BRouter shows plausible results:

. . .

May be it depends on the avoidances (very few in my Car profile) or BRouter has been corrected inbetween?

[devemux86]

@MotoUKRider I tested again the uninstall / reinstall:

• Uninstall: select to keep the app data (see image)
• Reinstall: Cruiser opens exactly the same, with "My collection", maps, storage and settings
• So app does not delete anything and no adjustment is needed anywhere

If it does not work in your device, probably doing something wrong or your OEM has changed Android.
In that case use a file manager to backup the media folder.

[MotoUKRider]

@devemux86 Keeping the data during uninstall has always worked. The process I am reporting described above in this post is the step beyond that. Once again, I concede it's an unusual approach but it highlights a flaw in the storage settings where a fail-safe check is not performed on a new setting.

Imagine trying to park your car in a space where a car is already parked: Your car simply pushes the existing one out of the space so you can park there.

I think the process my end would be to uninstall (keep the data), reinstall and then load my App Profile - which should simply restore the settings rather than "apply" them in the way that deletes the existing contents without any warning.

[devemux86]

@MotoUKRider

Here, with original Android, uninstalling the app and selecting "Keep app data", keeps everything:
media folder, app settings (so media is remembered), my collection, etc.

Reinstall, defaults to "data"

No, in original Android it works correctly as reinstall restores automatically the app settings,
so it remembers the media folder.

So your Android (modified by your device) works differently?
Maybe, but apps cannot change this. 🙂

Here, reinstall app and it finds everything again: maps, settings (with media folder), my collection, etc.
No need to restore a profile or anything else.

App does not contain code to delete any app folder!

If this happens in your device, this is done by your device's (modified) Android system, so apps cannot do anything.
Use a file manager to move the files manually.

[MotoUKRider]

@devemux86 That's interesting, but what I can say for sure is that when I uninstall and keep data (it stays in "media" ready to be reused or backed-up), a fresh Cruiser install defaults to "data". In that state, it appears "box fresh" (online map etc) and then I have to work out how to salvage the contents in "media". It's only when I select the "media" location in storage setting does it all end in tears!

This is a Samsung S20 on 'droid v13, stock ROM. I can't think why it doesn't retain the "media" setting as part of the "keep data" method. I'm running the last OTA update that was pushed to it and it was one of those that locked-down the "data" folder from CX FileExplorer for me.

I suspect that the locking-down of "data" now has some internal App install code that assumes the "data" location regardless until the App invokes a new setting, but then isn't able to handle it correctly and... nudges the car out of the space!

No issues with Apps inside "data" under normal use - I just can't push a theme ZIP over WiFi using CX like I can into "media". Using the "open external theme" was a longer process and I prefer not to enabled extended menus. Also, it had the added bonus that I could restore map/routing data manually, which I can no longer do in "data".

[devemux86]

The media folder is no longer a recommended storage location by Google and Android.
They may restrict it more or even completely in the future.

Maybe some manufacturers are limiting the media folder already.

[devemux86]

Or we can restore the previous "Route duration" setting to work as before,
but set the default option to "Average speed".

So you can change it however you want.

[WolfgangZ42]

I do not understand why we are making this discussion now after the release

A reasonable question - sorry, I didn't give it the attention it deserved. It was only now, during a long car trip, that I noticed it again.

I would like to use the “Calculated route” function again for my car profile - in all other profiles, I use “Average Speed” anyway, although I don't want the deliberately defined speed to be adjusted while driving. That's because I know how fast I'm traveling on my bicycle or motorcycle on gravel roads. Maybe we could have an "average speed" w/o adjustment? A "static speed"? 🥴

Again: Sorry for being late ... and thanks a lot for your attention!

[devemux86]

defined speed to be adjusted while driving

This is already implemented, please see above:

• Route duration increases on curvy profiles #865 (reply in thread)

[MotoUKRider]

Having/keeping the 2 options would be better all round. Let those who use complex avoidances work with "Average" and allow those who had a perfectly working solution continue to use it (Calculated). By forcing "Average" upon us, it's taken away a feature that worked fine with a "no-avoidance" routing profile.

The only fair aspect of the current method is that everyone gets a best-guess duration.

[devemux86]

@MotoUKRider Thanks, agreed, let's do it this way then.

[devemux86]

defined speed to be adjusted while driving

Indeed, this was already again discussed and implemented, a long time ago, in the Beta period.

Please see above:

• Route duration increases on curvy profiles #865 (reply in thread)

[devemux86]

Real proof that BRouter's route duration does not work with a small route 21 km.

1. Fastest 35 min
2. Curvy 4 hours
3. Extra curvy 13.5 hours

[MotoUKRider]

I am not disputing this "issue" with BRouter, that example clearly shows a problem. However, I do not use complex avoidances in my example, and my test with a previous Cruiser build on my spare phone demonstrated that the duration calculation was indeed working correctly before the enforced change.

Latest Cruiser release thinks my simple A-B route with no avoidances is ~4:38. Previous build 5.6.0-b4 from July thinks it's ~3:14 which I know to be accurate from the times I've made the journey (3:10 on a good run, 3:30 with a bit of traffic). The issue I'm trying convey is that THIS type of routing has now broken for some users, that's all.

I'm not trying to be overly harsh but I have, hopefully, demonstrated that there was no issue in a previous build and that whatever changes you've applied (however well-intentioned for other users) has created a knock-on effect for others.

[devemux86]

For route duration, we could have the options:

• Calculated route
• Average speed
• Average speed (recorded)

So, you can choose to use the average speed selected in the settings or the average speed recorded during trips.

[MotoUKRider]

@devemux86 Using v5.6.0 (early August), I get ~3:04. I only seem to have current 5.7.0 release plus the B16+B18 from that version.

[devemux86]

@MotoUKRider Please share the route.

[devemux86]

@MotoUKRider Make sure on desktop you selected "Car" in travel mode menu.

[MotoUKRider]

@devemux86 It's a private route, but I have checked the settings and tried different routes between the 2 versions of Desktop, same result: Big difference. My latest, between Sheffield and St Albans, mostly motorway was 2:03 vs 4:58. Does it help that the BRouter information contained in the JSON route file has "null" where I think it should have a speed?!

Attached are GPX exports from v5.6.0 (correct time) and v5.7.0 (incorrect). When I switch versions, the route/settings remain intact but the route duration changes. The current release seems to recalculate upon startup, but manually forcing a recalculation on both versions, same difference in durations...
route-duration-test-560.txt
route-duration-test-570.txt

[devemux86]

@MotoUKRider Thanks for the route sample.

Version 5.7.0 probably uses the average speed for BRouter (online), it will be fixed in the next version.

[devemux86]

For route duration, we could have the options:

• Calculated route
• Average speed
• Average speed (recorded).

So, you can choose to use the average speed selected in the settings or the average speed recorded during trips.

• Implemented in Cruiser 5.7.4 #872 (comment)

[MotoUKRider]

@devemux86 Thanks for this - both App+Desktop now display the expected duration!