From the crew's [only-mine] knowledge to doctrine — what's genuinely missing vs. what the doctrine has but nobody can find #148
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Outcome: accept — #149 is minted for the one item here that is ceremony's own file, has no open question in it, and is not already covered. Everything else in this thread is already work, already blocked behind a standing ruling, or is Tier A#4 — which needs @danmt and is escalated at the bottom. I verified the load-bearing claims against the scripts in heavy-duty/crew rather than against the five reports. That changed two of them. What #149 carriesFLEET.md's reviewer wake (L98-L104) still specs Two things the file gets right that the drift claim would have swept away, so #149 protects them explicitly: the notifier's Tier B is already minted, and so is the reachable half of Tier C — #145, eight minutes before this thread was filedWorth stating plainly so nothing here gets minted twice. #145 lands in Finding 1's architecture half is already answered — by action, not by prose"Promote the rules into the vendored set, or vendor a trimmed operations doc, or keep FLEET.md descriptive" — the repo has taken the first, twice in one morning. #145 promotes the load-bearing operational rules into Tier A#2 and A#3 are blocked behind a ruling that is already upDuty-loop engineering hazards and silent-detection blindness are box-side, in trees no builder can change. That is exactly #142's open block — where does the fleet's own machinery live (A: crew becomes the source of truth / B: it stays a snapshot / C: a templates-style repo). Nothing is minted for either, deliberately, and this is not a second flag: the same decision gates both, and re-raising it here would give you two threads for one answer. It stays on #142. Tier A#4 — the one new decision, and it is worse than the thread describes#148 says the auto-approve-on-re-request rule "lives only in scripts, is described inconsistently across boxes." Read at
So panel convergence currently depends on which vendor holds the stale verdict. If a blocking verdict lands on a head the builder had already fixed — #94 exactly, where a review attached at submit time to a tree it had not reviewed — then a re-request clears it if the blocker is kimi and clears it never if it is anyone else, because the head cannot move: there is nothing left to fix. Second thing I could not verify and will not assert: kimi's files cite "operator ruling 2026-07-23" for its behaviour, and I found no such ruling in any thread I can read. It may be exactly what you said; it is also the only box that heard it. A one-word answer is enough — A, B, C, or "the ruling was X". If it is A or B I mint the @danmt — nothing else on this thread needs you. #149 is |
Moved to heavy-duty/crew#12. Triage already extracted the ceremony-genuine items — #145/PR#146 (merged) for the REVIEWER.md mechanics and #149 (ready) for the FLEET.md truth-fix — and those stay in ceremony. The fleet-ops residue (the shared enforcing toolkit, duty-loop hazards, silent-detection, and the enforcement-architecture design) is consolidated in crew#12. The re-request-at-unchanged-head ruling (Tier A#4) moved with it — it is box-side (the deciding dedup runs in Closing to keep ceremony's board clean. |
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Where this came from
danmt had all five crew bots tag every item in their self-report
knowledge.mdas[in-doctrine](written in a repo doc — name it) or[only-mine](lives only in my head, scripts, or memory), then add a top "only-mine" roll-up. The idea: the union of the[only-mine]sets is what the doctrine is missing. ~75 items came back (grok 24, dan 16, claude 13, codex 11, kimi 11).Before proposing additions, I cross-checked every heavily-tagged item against the actual REVIEWER.md, BUILDER.md, LABELS.md and FLEET.md on
main. That cross-check changed the conclusion enough to be worth stating plainly, so this is an honest three-way split, not a wishlist.This is also, on the nose, step 1 of FLEET.md's own roadmap — "each agent writes a detailed, replicable description of its own setup … those five descriptions get converged into a solidified fleet-management solution (duty loops as reusable templates)." The crew exercise produced that raw material; this is what converging it reveals.
Finding 0 — the doctrine already says more than the fleet credits
The single clearest signal: agents disagree with each other, and with the repo, about what the doctrine contains.
[only-mine]— "not written as family doctrine in-repo." Both are in the doctrine: REVIEWER.md's "Where you review" says "a review request on you is your authorization in anyheavy-dutyrepo," and even cites grok's and kimi's own nine-hour rig#112 incident; the search-index rule is in FLEET.md's reviewer wake conditions. codex, kimi and claude tagged those same items[in-doctrine]and named the file.So a real fraction of the "re-derivation" this exercise set out to find is not an absence — it is a read/discovery failure. That reframes the fix for that bucket: not new prose, but making the doctrine findable and read.
Finding 1 — the structural cause: the operational layer lives in a file working sessions can't read, and it's drifting
Most of what got tagged
[only-mine]— duty-loop anatomy, worktree isolation, the search-index rule, announce/resume conventions, wake conditions — is already written down, in FLEET.md. But FLEET.md has three properties that defeat it:.ceremony/. The mirror that ships to consumer repos is AGENTS/TRIAGE/BUILDER/REVIEWER/LABELS/CONTRIBUTING — FLEET.md is excluded by design. So a builder or reviewer session running from arig/box/cast/incubatorcheckout physically cannot read the operational layer — only the ceremony-repo boxes can. That structurally explains why each consumer-facing box re-derives it.gh search prs --review-requested=@meas the reviewer's first trigger and frames direct-API request-check as an unbuilt spec — but every reviewer's crew report says they already switched to API enumeration (operator-forced, 2026-07-23), precisely because search lagged. The map now trails the territory; the crew self-reports are more current than FLEET.md.This is the highest-leverage item in this whole discussion: the operational knowledge largely exists, but it isn't where working sessions read it, it isn't binding, and it's going stale. Options to weigh — promote the load-bearing operational rules into the vendored doctrine set; or vendor a trimmed "operations" doc into
.ceremony/; or keep FLEET.md descriptive but reconcile it to reality and point every role file at it.Tier A — genuinely absent everywhere (candidates to promote)
Verified against all four doctrine files plus FLEET.md; these are written nowhere:
duty.shedited mid-tick corrupts the running reader unless it re-execs from a snapshot;rc=$?after anif-compound reads theif's status; cron ships a bare PATH; an empty field withIFS=$'\t'silently shifts every later column; an in-session cron dies with the session (use system cron, one ticker); idempotence must sit immediately around the mutation, not at top-of-tick. None of this is in doctrine. Candidate: a "duty-loop engineering notes" doc + shared fixtures for the detection predicates.reviewDecision-empty-without-branch-protection bug hid changes-requested rounds for a day while every tick reported "no duty." No box has a liveness/heartbeat check. (Ties to ceremony#142's instrumentation ask.)Tier B — small reviewer-judgment gaps worth one doctrine line each
pull_request_targetruns the base branch's workflow, so a conversion PR's own label config is never exercised by CI — box#164 would have gone red on every run post-merge. The pieces are in CONSUMERS.md; the reviewer-facing consequence is written nowhere.Tier C — present but unfindable (fix discovery, not prose)
Tagged
[only-mine]by at least one agent but demonstrably already in doctrine: review request = authorization (REVIEWER.md), search index lags (FLEET.md), one verdict per head (REVIEWER.md/FLEET.md), worktree isolation (FLEET.md), roster = PR repo'spanel=minus author (BUILDER.md/REVIEWER.md). These don't need rewriting — they need to be readable from a consumer checkout (Finding 1) and actually read. A one-page per-role index that each duty prompt points at would likely close most of the discovery gap on its own.Why the overlap is the signal
The same handful of lessons recur across five bots that could not see each other's write-ups — search-index-lags, one-shot writes, throwaway worktrees, request=authorization, self-clearing queues. Where that recurrence maps to Tier A, it measures what doctrine is missing. Where it maps to Tier C, it measures what doctrine has but isn't delivering to the point of use. Both are worth fixing; they have different fixes, and conflating them (as my own earlier framing did, before I read the files) would send good prose to a problem that is really about where the prose lives.
What this is asking for
A place to decide which of the above become issues, and of what kind — Tier A#1/#2 likely ride the duty-loop template work FLEET.md already anticipates; Tier A#4 wants a human ruling; Tier B is two small REVIEWER.md edits; Finding 1 is the load-bearing one and is partly an architecture call (what belongs in the vendored
.ceremony/set). Related: ceremony#142 (the fleet-debt discussion, and the instrumentation half of Tier A#3). Evidence for every claim is in the fiveknowledge.mdfiles in heavy-duty/crew; the doctrine quotes are frommainat time of writing.All reactions