Why are hitsounds so loud in lazer?

[Pallid3]

#1594

Is this the reason why lazer's hitsounds sound louder than in stable even when using the exact same Master, Music and Effect volume settings ingame(s)?

Either way, it feels kinda impossible to match hitsounds volume feel between two clients, which makes switching or even trying out lazer very hard for me personally.

[cihe13375]

Your question made me curious so did some experiments on this.

Yes, the lazer hitsounds are generally louder than stable hitsounds at the same %, at least on the samples I tested. But what really interesting is this statement:

it feels kinda impossible to match hitsounds volume feel between two clients

Before the experiment I expect conversion formulas like "lazer 40% = stable 50%" to exist, i.e. it should be possible to match stable just by adjusting the volume numbers. But it turns out to be wrong, because the volume difference varies between samples. This is what I see:

Sample/music volume 50%, lazer master 39% and stable master 50%
Sample A: lazer is ~0.2dB louder than stable
Sample B: lazer is ~1.3dB louder than stable

Sample/music volume 50%, lazer master 37% and stable master 50%
Sample A: lazer is ~0.2dB quieter than stable
Sample B: lazer is ~0.9dB louder than stable

So it's impossible to match the volume of all hitsounds at the same time. It's possible to match for a single sample, but other samples would have wrong volumes.

The "hitsound stereo separation" setting does not affect the conclusion (my test hitcircle is placed at (256, 192)).

[peppy]

Your testing cannot be correct with regards to fixing the issue. The fix is to adjust music volume, not master, by precisely 25%. As an alternative, you could drop sample volume to 80% of your current value to achieve the same fix.

Explained here:

osu/osu.Game/OsuGameBase.cs

Lines 367 to 369 in f6cd5f8

	// drop track volume game-wide to leave some head-room for UI effects / samples.
	// this means that for the time being, gameplay sample playback is louder relative to the audio track, compared to stable.
	// we may want to revisit this if users notice or complain about the difference (consider this a bit of a trial).

[cihe13375]

Your testing cannot be correct with regards to fixing the issue

I think my post is misunderstood. What I meant is the "absolute" hitsound volume, not related to the music volume, not related to the relative intensity of music and hitsounds. All dB numbers presented are for the hitsounds alone. I think this is also what OP meant (I can't read their mind, of course).

The fix is to adjust music volume, not master, by precisely 25%

From my testing, the music volume setting has no impact on the hitsound volume. (At least when no music is presented; if the music is mixed with the hitsound the measurement becomes much more difficult; but in any case I'd be very surprised if the music volume could affect the hitsound volume)

As an alternative, you could drop sample volume to 80% of your current value to achieve the same fix

From my testing, master 50% + effect 40% is exactly same as master 40% + effect 50%, in terms of the hitsound volume. By the "drop to 80%" statement, I assume you meant that formulas like "lazer 40% = stable 50%" really exists, as I also expected before the experiment. But as explained above, it is not the case.

[peppy]

If you're still seeing differences with the adjustment I mentioned, then there's something else at play. Both games use different sound engines. This could mean that one is being affected by windows or driver level audio/loudness/limiting adjustments while the other isn't.

Make sure you have disabled "sound enhancements":

Test at a very low master volume to ensure the samples you're testing with are not compounding or hitting peaking limits. I'd recommend starting with 10% master volume.

[Pallid3]

Your testing cannot be correct with regards to fixing the issue. The fix is to adjust music volume, not master, by precisely 25%. As an alternative, you could drop sample volume to 80% of your current value to achieve the same fix.

Explained here:

osu/osu.Game/OsuGameBase.cs

Lines 367 to 369 in f6cd5f8

	// drop track volume game-wide to leave some head-room for UI effects / samples.
	// this means that for the time being, gameplay sample playback is louder relative to the audio track, compared to stable.
	// we may want to revisit this if users notice or complain about the difference (consider this a bit of a trial).

To get same ratio (music; hitsounds) (100%; 100%) in lazer you would use (100%; 80%), right? But how do you get master volume to match? I think lazer is noticably louder.

---

Also ideally could you program lazer to have same loudness and volume changes (so music and hitsounds) as in stable cuz it's so unintuitive to change my muscle memory and habits, especially as I still use both clients.

But even then I don't seem to get my volume right ever even when I play just on lazer all day. It always feels too loud in a way that it hurts ears, even if I try to intentionally put master's and hitsound's volume lower. (I use 40% master in lazer and 85-100% in stable currently). Also the difference is so weird. 35%-40% is so weird compared to 85%-100% that I normally use and it doesn't even feel the same. It feels like my ears are hurting more on lazer than playing on stable. idk i am not even sure if it's quieter or louder with my current settings...

PS. Well I do notice that in lazer when you scroll, it changes by one 1% at the time, but my mind is forcing myself to use volumes like 35% 40% 45% (in stable one scroll changes by 5%). Maybe that's why I can't my volume right (even when I try to set them by hearing).

PSS. menu sounds in lazer are also hurtfully loud compared to gameplay's hitsounds.