Speed limit panel new implementation

[devemux86]

• The panel with ! at top right (image 1) appears all the time displaying the current speed limit.
  The panel option is in navigation display settings (image 2).

• The warning at top center appears when go above the speed limit by the selected threshold.
  The threshold option is in navigation advanced settings (image 3).

[devemux86]

The panel with ! at top right appears all the time

Which is - depending on how much other panels are displayed in which order and what the current light conditions are - very hard to recognize. Therefore I did not activate it before.

The warning at top center

I would LOVE to have this displayed "all the time" instead of the small panel on the right.
It could then start to flash, if one is above the set limit...

Is this possible???

Originally posted by @bios4 in #441 (reply in thread).

[devemux86]

@bios4 we could think about a different display of speed limits.

Perhaps using different colors in the top-center circle?

• Display: black circle
• Warning: red circle

[bios4]

Display: black circle

No, please NO - I would urge to display it the VERY SAME way as is looks like in real life (and on the recent screenshots), means with the red border and the black value!

I am sure it would look weird with a different color to what is known and what road users all over the world (at least Europe 😁) are used to...

Warning: red circle

When one is above the limit threshold, you could start to flash it with inverted colors - white border/value on red ground.

[devemux86]

@bios4 we need to somehow differentiate the display from the warning.

Animated texts and flashing colors are not suitable for quick glances while driving or for battery and performance.

[bios4]

What about my addition with inverted colors ^^ (but then without the flashing)?

Quick & dirty suggestions with Paint.NET ^^ 😁

[WolfgangZ42]

Just for more ideas here my current solution with the overlayed app "Tempo Master":

[bios4]

Just for more ideas here my current solution with the overlayed app "Tempo Master"

👍 - looks almost identical to what I would love to have in Cruiser (w/o external/additional app)...

How is the speed limit displayed when you are driving above the limit?
Does it change its look to make you aware of it?

[devemux86]

@WolfgangZ42 thanks we need more ideas. 👍

Your image displays the current speed limit (in red circle).
What happens when you are above this, is there a visual warning?

[WolfgangZ42]

No - it doesn't change the display. But it gives a "beep" every 10 seconds you are over the limit. It's adjustable in various ways.

[umpfmpf]

I have now made a small lap: I have been waiting for the speed display for a long time. Now I have noticed that it takes a long time for the allowed speed to be displayed correctly. Most of the time I am out of a zone with a speed limit until the display changes. There is usually a delay of 5-30 seconds.

[bios4]

Should it display no max speed to user or continue to show the last max speed of A -> B segment?

You should definitely NOT(!!!) display the "last known max. speed of A -> B" segment!
What if the section where the OSM data is missing has a lower limit?

If the data you rely on does not contain the required information, better display nothing than a wrong value...
My 0,05.

[devemux86]

You should definitely NOT(!!!) display the "last known max. speed of A -> B" segment!
What if the section where the OSM data is missing has a lower limit?

If the data you rely on does not contain the required information, better display nothing than a wrong value...

That's what Cruiser is doing now. 🙂

[bios4]

That's what Cruiser is doing now.

...which is perfectly fine from my POV! 👍

[MotoUKRider]

I agree and would have replied the same: I know of several locations nearby that are 50 or 60mph roads but drop to a 40mph for barely a mile because there is a small cluster of homes along the route. There's also a missed 30-60mph change at another location - it's not perfect data, but at least the current method is fairly easy to update and reflected in near real-time. I would say that a blank display is best until valid data is available.

For now, we'll have to rely on those round metal panels stuck on metal sticks by the side of the road 😄

[0709wiwiwi]

If you keep the max speed in my region based only on the completely unreliable data fitted in open street maps Belgium might one day manage to reduce its immense national debt, The only thing that still can be done here very fast is the constant changing of the speed limits. Most osm contributors don't so update all this silly changes anymore. Welcome, my country is sure counting on your contributions too. Soon even the wheelchair users will be probably be moving too fast.

[umpfmpf]

In your list I see that the speeds are correct. I noticed that on the street too. But with a strong delay. That means that I am out of a 50kmh zone with a length of 500m until 50kmh is displayed. Then goes on again 500m. Everything recognized, but only too late. Up to 1 time, there were almost 1km of offset in a piece of forest.

[devemux86]

@umpfmpf there are some more tags that I need to add in Cruiser reader of BRouter data, coming in next update.

[DolomitesTom]

nothing to comment... thank god i'm not interested in speed limits... I don't see them at all :-)... congenital red-white blindness

[0709wiwiwi]

Although I have immense reservations about the (local) reliability of the osm max speed data, there is still the problem of what to show when a street is divided into several osm edited sections whereby the speed indications are too often missing.
The preference here was to show nothing or thus as (! --) max speed. A speed indication is so missing very often.
Alternative?
Road sections with a known speed limit are shown by the well-known road code signal red border ring & black numbers.
If a next osm road section(s) is missing this data, continue to show the last shown sign with a black border ring & faded.

[umpfmpf]

I have now simulated the route and then started driving it. In the simulation, exact is shown the same as on the street. However, the speed displayed is still very different from reality.

[umpfmpf]

It took 2 days, but now the new speed limits have been adopted.
Now the display in Cruiser also matches the signage on the street.
Should mean: if everyone finds the error improving it, we will have a really good navigation at some point with the correct speed limit display.
So it is a bit of the task of the users to maintain them...
@devemux86: very good work

[devemux86]

@umpfmpf thanks again for the report and the tests! 👍

[0709wiwiwi]

Should mean: if everyone finds the error improving it, we will have a really good navigation at some point with the correct speed limit display.

I would not trust the business.

[umpfmpf]

@0709wiwiwi
I drove a little lap yesterday.
I found that most streets are actually relatively precise.
Only on b- c- or even smaller streets does the display become imprecise.
And you can save them as favorites during driving and improve them later if you want to.
For me it is mainly relevant on the main streets where traps can be found.

[devemux86]

Let's not forget that we almost lost OpenAndroMaps, the story is here:

• https://www.openandromaps.org/en/updates-suspended

Fortunately Christian and the other members of OpenAndroMaps continue their excellent work:

• https://www.openandromaps.org/en/new-maps-new-features

[MotoUKRider]

The availability of speed-limit data on roads is varied to say the least. As part of my efforts to "port" my map theme into BaseCamp, I have added the speed-limit to the mouse-hover (tool-tip) which very easily lets me see where road segments are missing speed data.

Spoiler-alert : It's quite a lot, at least in the UK.
As I wrote earlier in this thread, if the source data isn't there, the app can only help you so much. It's just good to know that it can be fixed with a little learning and some time - rather than be locked into data (or themes) that can't be altered no matter how bad/incorrect/out-of-date 😸

[MotoUKRider]

It doesn't matter (to the average user) where the data comes from, so long as it's reliable and fairly up-to-date. I believe CoPilot (when I subscribed to it) used a 3rd-party dataset (there were lots of copyright credits on the "About" screen) and updated every few months.

If BRouter is using the OSM "maxspeed" as a source, then there will always be gaps - and I've found that the gaps are literally that: A segment within a long road is missing a value, or a particular segment passes a residential area and the lower speed-limit has not been updated. That's nobody's fault and everybody's fault 😆 Cruiser could, unfairly, be blamed for being unreliable in that regard if a user is in an area that is not of interest to editors of OSM.

The data needs to be there, if only for route duration calculation - you can't rely on road-types as always having specific speed-limits but I accept there will be a need to average-out the calculations because there is no value to work with. It's never going to be perfect, but I'm at least wiser as to the "hows" and "whys" with my under-the-hood investigations!

[WolfgangZ42]

There is a URL to control the OSM settings of maxspeed: - don't know if it works for Northern Ireland ... in Germany its helpful to identify gaps:

a try for you @MotoUKRider:

[MotoUKRider]

@WolfgangZ42 Thanks for that example - that website is quite useful! Obviously it's in km but I was able to "nose around".

@0709wiwiwi Lower speed limits are certainly welcome in built-up areas but most of these silly limits are a result of a) residents campaigning and/or b) incident statistics. In an ideal world, we'd drive according to the conditions of the road within the (well sign-posted) limits and be able to stop in the distance we can see to be clear on our side of the road 👮 For everything else, Denali make good after-market horns 🎺

You were only speeding a little bit? That's OK, the 5yr-old you hit is only a little bit dead.

[devemux86]

New panel to display the speed limit:

• Speed limit is displayed at the same position in different colors for:

  • Display
  • Warning (when exceeded)

• Current speed also changes color when the speed limit is exceeded

• Available in "Settings | Navigation | Panels | Speed limit" as before

• Voice announcement when speed limit exceeded works as before
  "Settings | Voice guidance | Announcement | Speed limit"

• Old speed limit panel on the right was removed for more free space

Display	Warning

[devemux86]

The new panel to display the speed limit is available in Cruiser 5.1.0-b11.

[DolomitesTom]

Speed limit is displayed at the same position in different colors for:
Display
Warning (when exceeded)
Available in "Settings | Navigation | Panels | Speed limit" as before

where do I now find the threshold where I set that a warning should only appear when I am 40 km/h above?

[devemux86]

It is still in "Settings | Navigation | Advanced | Speed limit tolerance".

[devemux86]

Another improvement is that current speed also changes color when the speed limit is exceeded.

I updated the screenshots above.

[MotoUKRider]

Should I be able to see this on a simulated route calculated with internal BRouter?
I've tested numerous places (with known speed values in OSM) but don't see the display in either orientation.

[devemux86]

@MotoUKRider Speed limit will also be displayed in simulation in the next update.

[devemux86]

• New panel to display the speed limit is available in Cruiser 5.1.1 #684

[MotoUKRider]

Just noticed that the Speed-limit roundel gets auto-enabled when updating to the latest version from the Play store.

This happened on my Samsung S20 when I went out for a ride the other day - and just decided to update the backup S9 device: Checked the setting first, it was "off". After updating: "on". Odd!

[devemux86]

@MotoUKRider There was a needed change for the driving profiles.
We can disable it again if we do not need it.

[MotoUKRider]

@devemux86 Yes, it caught me by surprise as the first couple of roads don't have a limit, so it appeared automagically as I reached Warp Factor 7 on the first "big road".

[devemux86]

is this also working in simulation mode or only while navigating?

@DolomitesTom Speed limit also appears in simulation. But it must exist in OSM data and the route.

Can this tempolimit only be show when speed + limit threshold is exceeded? At least it doesn't show anything for me in simulation mode. I would like to test this "Blitzdings" (flash thing).

Current speed limit implementation that was agreed with the users can be seen in this long discussion.

You participated in this discussion above.
Should we change the speed limit implementation again?

If you are not interested in the speed limit panel, you can turn it off.
Displaying the panel only when you exceed the speed limit, that is the benefit?
That's why the voice speed limit warning exists, you can enable it in voice settings.

[DolomitesTom]

ok thanks, normally I don't need it, it is just because I drive through the Swiss soon, then maybe I will care for it, otherwise it gets expensive.

Displaying the panel only when you exceed the speed limit, that is the benefit?

For me yes.

Voice warning sometimes can be overheard due to bluetooth or volume level issues.

[devemux86]

@DolomitesTom If you don't use the speed limit voice warning and have the speed limit panel off,
then how you will know the speed limit in your area?

Looking randomly the screen to see if the speed limit panel appears when you exceed the speed?

Just look your actual speed panel, when speed is over the speed limit, then it's painted in red:
(the 62 km/h in the screenshot)

[DolomitesTom]

If you don't use the speed limit voice warning and have the speed limit panel off,
then how you will know the speed limit in your area?

I simply don't care because I am mostly far beyond anyway. I would hear the "Voice Pointing finger" permanently and would then become blunt.

Looking randomly the screen to see if the speed limit panel appears when you exceed the speed?

I am looking quite often peripherally at the screen to have a quick prediction for the curve. And then the white and red prohibition sign just gets on my nerves.

Just look your actual speed panel, when speed is over the speed limit, then it's painted in red:
(the 62 km/h in the screenshot)

Maybe this works in Swiss temporarily. Is this also turning into red when the speed panel is turned off?

[DolomitesTom]

Speed panel must be visible to display the speed or become red when exceed the speed limit.

That's not too comfortable to my point of view. You don't need to change something just for me, just to understand: why this limitation?

[devemux86]

@DolomitesTom All the panels at the right are information panels.
We enable them when we want to see constantly their information.

[devemux86]

Some of the information panels may turn red when there is a warning in their data.
e.g. current speed, battery level

[MotoUKRider]

The "sudden appearance" of an icon (like the speed-limit warning) may be, ahem, more "helpful" than the icon just changing colour.

I recall that CoPilotGPS had a 2-switch config for "Display" and "Warning" so it would only appear if you were enjoying the throttle a bit too much.

[devemux86]

@MotoUKRider For warning panels this makes sense.
It also described below as a possible improvement.

[devemux86]

Other apps have options "Always" and "When exceeded", for the warning panel.
So we can offer something similar too.

[DolomitesTom]

you mean for the panel to appear? yes please, the option "when exceeded" is great...

[devemux86]

For the warning panel at the center of the screen.

[devemux86]

New speed limit panel options will be available in the next Cruiser:

[devemux86]

• Speed limit panel new implementation is available in Cruiser 5.5.2 #820