Dev meeting 2015 12 01

Dec 02 05:29:36 <gawainlynch>	ping Bopp carsonfull rarila rossriley SahAssar slick0 
Dec 02 05:29:54 <rarila>	pong
Dec 02 05:30:26 <Bopp>	jo
Dec 02 05:31:16 <gawainlynch>	Everyone is away getting beers?
Dec 02 05:31:30 <Bopp>	i'm back :-)
Dec 02 05:31:37 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: It's too darn early for rum!
Dec 02 05:31:53 <carsonfull>	Yo
Dec 02 05:31:58 <SahAssar>	pong
Dec 02 05:32:02 <carsonfull>	Woah rum? I'm still drinking coffee
Dec 02 05:32:05 <gawainlynch>	OK, we just need rossriley 
Dec 02 05:33:33 <gawainlynch>	While we're waiting on rossriley, lets cover off the other issues… Bopp #4223
Dec 02 05:33:53 <gawainlynch>	Oh dear
Dec 02 05:33:55 -[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms-	#4223 [open] Clearing a templatefields selection doesn't clear the warning https://github.com/bolt/bolt/issues/4223  — assigned to rarila
Dec 02 05:34:01 *	gawainlynch hugs [BoltIssueBall] 
Dec 02 05:34:13 <Bopp>	yes. 
Dec 02 05:34:25 <Bopp>	I need to fix up the Javascript on that one
Dec 02 05:34:38 <Bopp>	Rarila suggested a better way to handle it, 
Dec 02 05:34:39 <gawainlynch>	#4502 for reference
Dec 02 05:34:41 -[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms-	#4502 [open] [WIP] Smoothen UI for templatefields toggle. https://github.com/bolt/bolt/pull/4502 
Dec 02 05:35:01 <Bopp>	but the better way requires a ton of work, that Rarila is going to do later. 
Dec 02 05:35:16 <Bopp>	so, for now i'mma patch this up and call it "good enough" 
Dec 02 05:35:32 <gawainlynch>	Kewl… #4541?
Dec 02 05:35:57 <Bopp>	i was working on that. 
Dec 02 05:36:05 <rarila>	Bopp: I wanted to start on it the whole day, but didn't manage
Dec 02 05:36:10 -[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms-	#4541 [open] Feature/widget configurable wrapper https://github.com/bolt/bolt/pull/4541 
Dec 02 05:36:12 <Bopp>	expect a fix for that later tonight
Dec 02 05:36:22 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: "was" or "am"
Dec 02 05:36:24 <gawainlynch>	OK
Dec 02 05:36:42 <gawainlynch>	Bopp & SahAssar: Direction/progress on base-2016?
Dec 02 05:37:18 <Bopp>	rarila: about 4502: i say we fix it my way until you have time to do it properly after the next release, right? 
Dec 02 05:37:19 <SahAssar>	Hmm, basically the thing I know needs to be done is to add some of the new widget features/checks.
Dec 02 05:37:37 <rossriley>	sorry… i’m late
Dec 02 05:37:45 <rossriley>	here now
Dec 02 05:37:48 <gawainlynch>	zero stress, rossriley 
Dec 02 05:38:06 <Bopp>	I'm the bottleneck on that one.. I want to take some time to go over it thouroughly.
Dec 02 05:38:18 <gawainlynch>	base-2016, Bopp ?
Dec 02 05:38:31 <Bopp>	gawainlynch: yes, i'm the bottleneck on that one
Dec 02 05:38:43 <gawainlynch>	Cool, that works in well then…
Dec 02 05:38:55 <gawainlynch>	rossriley: Repeating fields, how's that moving?
Dec 02 05:39:37 <rossriley>	pretty good… I’ve got saving/updating/deleting working now...
Dec 02 05:39:59 <rossriley>	still some test failures on travis to investigate / fix
Dec 02 05:40:02 <Bopp>	nice. 
Dec 02 05:40:17 *	SahAssar woo's for repeating fields
Dec 02 05:40:17 <gawainlynch>	I am guessing that in terms of elapsed-time there is still a week or two until it's production ready?
Dec 02 05:40:36 <rossriley>	hopefully finish off the PR this weekend
Dec 02 05:40:41 <gawainlynch>	Lovely
Dec 02 05:41:01 <Bopp>	also nice
Dec 02 05:41:09 <gawainlynch>	OK… so now… has everyone has a look over https://discuss.bolt.cm/d/112-bolt-version-roadmap-changes
Dec 02 05:42:21 <gawainlynch>	In case anyone noticed me skipping some issues before getting to that, the outcome of this part influences what happens with the outstanding session/CSRF stuff
Dec 02 05:42:28 <Bopp>	My vote is for "let's rebrand 2.3 as 3.0"
Dec 02 05:42:43 *	SahAssar votes Aye
Dec 02 05:42:50 <rossriley>	+1
Dec 02 05:43:40 <Bopp>	rarila? carsonfull? gawainlynch? 
Dec 02 05:44:13 <gawainlynch>	OK… while carsonfull is madly typing out his response on the phone… that means we are going to introduce a slight delay as one of the things on the cards for 2.4 was the migration for extensions in the same way that storage is being handled
Dec 02 05:44:14 <carsonfull>	I'm ok with it as long as we can break a couple things
Dec 02 05:44:18 <carsonfull>	It would be a major release after all
Dec 02 05:44:26 <Bopp>	carsonfull: if you do it quickly. 
Dec 02 05:44:35 <gawainlynch>	To that end, carsonfull and I have a branch under production and nearly ready
Dec 02 05:44:50 <rarila>	Bopp: I'm ok with everything, numbers, words, …
Dec 02 05:45:07 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: Short answer, if we agree on a reasonable delay, it has my vote too
Dec 02 05:45:41 <Bopp>	As an anecdotal aside: This weekend i was at the t-dose conference, and i spoke with some people on twitter. Several people mentioned out of the blue that they thought it was a good thing we bumped to 3.0"
Dec 02 05:45:47 <carsonfull>	To expand, since extensions will need to change at least their supported bolt version, so it would be a good time to change a couple other things. Which would make things way easier in core
Dec 02 05:45:54 <Bopp>	I said: nothing's final? how do you know? 
Dec 02 05:45:58 <gawainlynch>	Regardless, I don't see the other outstanding issues being fixed in a tiny amount of time… base-2016 is still dragging… etc
Dec 02 05:46:09 <Bopp>	apparently, people follow our twitter. 
Dec 02 05:46:14 <rarila>	Bopp: lets surprise them with 4.0 ;-)
Dec 02 05:47:10 <gawainlynch>	OK… so are we all cool with a delivery date in Q1-2016 that will have minor BC breaks?
Dec 02 05:47:19 <Bopp>	i am
Dec 02 05:47:21 <rossriley>	the other caveat is that I’d like us to try hard not to introduce any major new features into the 3 > 4 bump, because otherwise we’re going to have in and need to support two versions of lots of things legacy and new
Dec 02 05:47:44 <Bopp>	rossriley: sounds reasonable.
Dec 02 05:47:51 <SahAssar>	rossriley: Sounds good
Dec 02 05:47:56 <gawainlynch>	rossriley: Agreed… I don't think we can aim for zero though
Dec 02 05:48:05 <carsonfull>	rossriley: What do you mean?
Dec 02 05:48:08 <gawainlynch>	(not that that is what you're asking)
Dec 02 05:48:16 <rossriley>	no, I’m thinking more time / rather than actual feature count
Dec 02 05:48:23 <rarila>	I like to break by removing underscore/backbone and custom listings - is that possible then?
Dec 02 05:48:36 <gawainlynch>	rarila: Timeline?
Dec 02 05:48:54 <rossriley>	carsonfull: well in 3.0 we’re going to have all the new storage / search stuff along with all the old stuff too
Dec 02 05:49:02 <rarila>	gawainlynch: the former can already removed
Dec 02 05:49:37 <rossriley>	and we’re not going to remove until 4.0 which means we still need to maintian both new and old between 3 and 4
Dec 02 05:49:44 <gawainlynch>	rarila: Yeah, and the custom listing thing is a bit foggy now anyway, better if we break/admit/document
Dec 02 05:49:50 <carsonfull>	rossriley: Ok. I just really want to have a solid way forward and a clean break for 4.0
Dec 02 05:49:58 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: Agreed
Dec 02 05:50:03 <rarila>	gawainlynch: listings are ready, but I'm not quite happy with two points
Dec 02 05:50:06 <carsonfull>	rossriley: I'm thinking of things like config
Dec 02 05:50:19 <carsonfull>	and translations
Dec 02 05:51:00 <[BoltGitHubBot]>	[bolt] GawainLynch opened pull request #4549: Update deprecation notices for 2.3 -> 3.0 (master...hotfix/deprecations) http://git.io/vRekp
Dec 02 05:51:17 <carsonfull>	I really want to have new code in place and released before we break BC with 4.0. So people know how to update
Dec 02 05:51:55 <Bopp>	carsonfull: agreed. The biggest factor in that is having good documentation
Dec 02 05:52:12 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: And that is literally going to be part of the v3 delay
Dec 02 05:52:20 <Bopp>	even I am lost at how to do stuff in extensions, right now
Dec 02 05:52:22 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: carsonfull and I have most of this very close to PR
Dec 02 05:52:38 <carsonfull>	Documentation is huging lackly
Dec 02 05:52:41 <gawainlynch>	^ this
Dec 02 05:52:48 <Bopp>	que?
Dec 02 05:53:01 <gawainlynch>	Documentation on changes/new ways
Dec 02 05:53:43 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: Oh if relevant to the "PR" statement… changes needed for extensions and getting v3 ready as a transitional release to v4
Dec 02 05:53:50 <Bopp>	but who's Lackly, and is the docs hugging him/her? 
Dec 02 05:54:06 <gawainlynch>	Ah… "lacking"
Dec 02 05:54:19 <Bopp>	ah
Dec 02 05:54:21 <carsonfull>	I was talking about gawainlynch
Dec 02 05:54:28 *	carsonfull hides
Dec 02 05:54:33 *	gawainlynch hugs carsonfull 
Dec 02 05:54:50 <carsonfull>	Oh lackly not lacky. fail
Dec 02 05:54:55 <slick0>	hmm… documentation, you say?
Dec 02 05:54:59 *	slick0 takes notes
Dec 02 05:55:11 *	SahAssar copies off of slick0's notes
Dec 02 05:55:12 <carsonfull>	Yeah documentation. Not to mention we don't have a way to separate versions right now
Dec 02 05:55:15 <gawainlynch>	OK… Anyone have anything more to raise?
Dec 02 05:55:29 <carsonfull>	2.2 is still LTS, but now we are going to have (very different) 3.0
Dec 02 05:55:34 <gawainlynch>	^
Dec 02 05:55:35 <rossriley>	anything we can do about server stuff?
Dec 02 05:55:48 <gawainlynch>	rossriley: What is the root of that, do you know?
Dec 02 05:56:03 <gawainlynch>	Apart from using a toy db and Apache…
Dec 02 05:56:09 <Bopp>	rossriley: I can set up a cron, and restart the mysql process every [x] hours?
Dec 02 05:56:17 <rossriley>	no I don’t… Bopp you have any objections to adding my ssh key to root? i can perhaps investigate more
Dec 02 05:56:33 <rarila>	Bopp: isn't there a postgres?
Dec 02 05:56:37 <Bopp>	rossriley: yeah, no problem. 
Dec 02 05:56:42 <gawainlynch>	rarila: New server will be ;-)
Dec 02 05:56:49 <Bopp>	i'll get on that, when we're done here
Dec 02 05:56:54 <rossriley>	rarila: moving to Postgres is too big a job right now
Dec 02 05:56:58 <Bopp>	(the ssh key, not server)
Dec 02 05:57:11 <carsonfull>	Bopp: Is it too much to ask to setup code for multiple doc versions before release?
Dec 02 05:57:28 <gawainlynch>	+1
Dec 02 05:57:30 <rossriley>	plus mysql should work fine, there’s just something slightly wrong with the setup
Dec 02 05:57:43 <Bopp>	carsonfull: not at all. For "V3 beta" we absolutely need a "v3 beta docs" 
Dec 02 05:58:10 >ChanServ<	op #boltcms gawainlynch 
Dec 02 05:58:10 *	ChanServ gives channel operator status to gawainlynch
Dec 02 05:58:17 <carsonfull>	We still have a lot of code in the pipeline. after that we need to stabilize, and document. Maybe then beta?
Dec 02 05:58:57 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: We should be aiming for a beta release early in the new year
Dec 02 05:59:00 <carsonfull>	document including new features and code for multiple versions
Dec 02 05:59:45 <gawainlynch>	OK so who wants ownership of the documentation update management?
Dec 02 05:59:49 <carsonfull>	yay for death marches
Dec 02 05:59:56 <Bopp>	yes, bumping the version to 3.0 gives us _some_ breathing space, but we should take care not to delay longer than necessary
Dec 02 06:00:01 <gawainlynch>	Death marches?
Dec 02 06:00:10 <carsonfull>	Bopp: Ok good, that's what I wanted to hear
Dec 02 06:00:18 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: What carsonfull said
Dec 02 06:00:20 <carsonfull>	gawainlynch: Give it to me
Dec 02 06:00:30 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: Thanks mate
Dec 02 06:00:42 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: I'll bug fix your FS stuff then :-P
Dec 02 06:00:51 <carsonfull>	hehe we never brought that up
Dec 02 06:01:14 <gawainlynch>	Anything more? 5… 4… 3…
Dec 02 06:01:19 <Bopp>	yes
Dec 02 06:01:22 <carsonfull>	FS repo is pretty much complete! I have a branch in core integrating new code!
Dec 02 06:01:30 <Bopp>	how's Carson's FS stuff going? ;-)
Dec 02 06:01:38 <slick0>	#karma Bopp 
Dec 02 06:01:40 <[BoltIssueBall]>	BoltKarma for Bopp is now 194
Dec 02 06:01:58 <Bopp>	carsonfull: cool
Dec 02 06:02:10 <carsonfull>	And what's our code coverage gawainlynch?
Dec 02 06:02:37 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: I think we're nearly 70% on that branch… easy completion… just need to finalise the error handling
Dec 02 06:02:55 <carsonfull>	So yeah, thanks to gawainlynch for all the tests he's written
Dec 02 06:02:59 <gawainlynch>	It should be final, carsonfull and I just needed time to green light it
Dec 02 06:03:11 <gawainlynch>	The core stuff is close to go
Dec 02 06:03:16 <Bopp>	I have one more thing to add: I think Twig's named parameters functionality is slightly retarded.
Dec 02 06:03:24 <gawainlynch>	The new extension builds on that
Dec 02 06:03:44 <carsonfull>	Bopp: why?
Dec 02 06:03:46 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: You were one of the people pushing it weren't you?
Dec 02 06:04:04 <carsonfull>	gawainlynch: I think everyone just wants a PR for it ;)
Dec 02 06:04:19 <Bopp>	well, either that, or _I_ am slightly retarded.. 
Dec 02 06:04:34 <Bopp>	looking into fixing up #4541. 
Dec 02 06:04:34 -[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms-	#4541 [open] Feature/widget configurable wrapper https://github.com/bolt/bolt/pull/4541 
Dec 02 06:04:50 <Bopp>	I'm going to dig deeper, if thedev-meeting is done
Dec 02 06:04:53 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: Say no to empty strings and empty()s
Dec 02 06:05:04 <Bopp>	gawainlynch: tell that to fabian!
Dec 02 06:05:17 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: ¿qué?
Dec 02 06:05:18 <carsonfull>	what gawainlynch said
Dec 02 06:05:39 <gawainlynch>	Fabien uses nulls everywhere in line with standard practice
Dec 02 06:05:47 <Bopp>	Ok, first i'll fix up #4541, and then we'll see if I or Twig is the retarded one. 
Dec 02 06:05:48 -[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms-	#4541 [open] Feature/widget configurable wrapper https://github.com/bolt/bolt/pull/4541 
Dec 02 06:05:56 <gawainlynch>	Oh… that
Dec 02 06:06:15 <gawainlynch>	This is diverging… meeting points?
Dec 02 06:06:23 <Bopp>	i'm done
Dec 02 06:06:27 <gawainlynch>	5… 4… 3…
Dec 02 06:06:28 <carsonfull>	Done
Dec 02 06:06:37 <gawainlynch>	</close>
Dec 02 06:06:40 <Bopp>	just want to say, im happy about 3.0