Dev meeting 2015 12 08

Dec 08 18:30:33 <gawainlynch>	ping Bopp carsonfull rarilaDroid rossriley SahAssar slick0 
Dec 08 18:30:49 <carsonfull>	Oh wow. totally forgot
Dec 08 18:30:52 <rossriley>	hello hello
Dec 08 18:31:30 <gawainlynch>	rossriley: Always prompt!
Dec 08 18:31:43 <gawainlynch>	*cough* Bopp *cough*
Dec 08 18:31:47 <gawainlynch>	:-P
Dec 08 18:32:01 <Bopp>	here
Dec 08 18:32:12 <gawainlynch>	Hehe
Dec 08 18:32:41 <Bopp>	#4202 for the lazy. 
Dec 08 18:32:41 -[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms-	#4202 [open] [Tracker] Bolt 3.0 Release Blocking Issues https://github.com/bolt/bolt/issues/4202 
Dec 08 18:33:36 <gawainlynch>	OK… so given everyone is in channel and can do logs… let's get kickin'
Dec 08 18:33:58 <gawainlynch>	rossriley: You're the lead ninja… fire away
Dec 08 18:34:29 <rossriley>	ha..
Dec 08 18:34:36 <rossriley>	right, in terms of what’s on my radar...
Dec 08 18:34:54 <rossriley>	repeating fields, last PR is in, just needs a couple of tweaks to pass the test
Dec 08 18:35:19 <Bopp>	excellent
Dec 08 18:35:20 <rossriley>	there’s a few bugs with serializing fields that need to be sorted...
Dec 08 18:35:44 <rossriley>	namely the #4563
Dec 08 18:35:45 -[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms-	#4563 [open] Empty array field types getting saved with attribute keys https://github.com/bolt/bolt/issues/4563  — assigned to rossriley
Dec 08 18:36:10 <rossriley>	and a similar one with multi-selects getting saved as strings rather than json
Dec 08 18:36:11 <gawainlynch>	Yeah… we got around that in #4561 eventually
Dec 08 18:36:12 -[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms-	#4561 [open] Filesystem / Thumbnail Refactor Phase I https://github.com/bolt/bolt/pull/4561 
Dec 08 18:36:20 <gawainlynch>	*cough* review + merge
Dec 08 18:36:40 <rossriley>	i think #4532 should be sorted now
Dec 08 18:36:40 -[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms-	#4532 [open] "Default" values in contenttypes.yml aren't used. https://github.com/bolt/bolt/issues/4532 
Dec 08 18:36:48 <carsonfull>	I'm confused why that's failing still gawainlynch?
Dec 08 18:37:01 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: See comment in PR
Dec 08 18:37:20 <carsonfull>	Yeah changes in libraries aren't getting pulled...why?
Dec 08 18:37:53 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: It does a Composer install on *current* master first, not the PR, updating that gets ugly…  
Dec 08 18:38:09 <gawainlynch>	*Composer create-project
Dec 08 18:38:10 <carsonfull>	Seriously...?
Dec 08 18:38:17 <gawainlynch>	Yeah
Dec 08 18:38:25 <gawainlynch>	See .travis.yml
Dec 08 18:38:48 <gawainlynch>	Our composer libraries change so in-frequently I haven't botherered to look deeper
Dec 08 18:39:01 <carsonfull>	before_script doesn't come after git branch?
Dec 08 18:39:33 <gawainlynch>	That is run for the default install, yes, but there is a second install for the composer install type
Dec 08 18:40:07 <gawainlynch>	rossriley: The select field thing, is that the one I mention in #Anything you need spare hands with, or all under control
Dec 08 18:40:14 <carsonfull>	Oh geez
Dec 08 18:40:18 <gawainlynch>	copy/paste fail
Dec 08 18:40:22 <gawainlynch>	#4422
Dec 08 18:40:23 -[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms-	#4422 [open] [Tracker] Repeating Fields Push to the Finish https://github.com/bolt/bolt/issues/4422 
Dec 08 18:40:45 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: Time bro, time
Dec 08 18:40:52 <[BoltGitHubBot]>	[bolt] CarsonF closed pull request #4561: Filesystem / Thumbnail Refactor Phase I (master...filesystem-refactor) http://git.io/vRgcy
Dec 08 18:41:05 <carsonfull>	yeah hence the merge :)
Dec 08 18:41:19 <gawainlynch>	OK… um… works for me
Dec 08 18:41:41 <Bopp>	haha
Dec 08 18:41:41 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: Moving on… your outstandings?
Dec 08 18:41:43 <Bopp>	BOOM!
Dec 08 18:41:49 <carsonfull>	Oh was I supposed to let someone else? Whoops
Dec 08 18:41:57 <Bopp>	Some loose ends on widgets.. 
Dec 08 18:42:02 <gawainlynch>	*cough* #4560 *cough*
Dec 08 18:42:03 -[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms-	#4560 [open] [Deprecations] v3 removals https://github.com/bolt/bolt/pull/4560 
Dec 08 18:42:16 <Bopp>	and fixing any and all UX niggles i find. 
Dec 08 18:42:32 <Bopp>	i still feel like i'm only getting in the way of most of the other stuff.
Dec 08 18:43:13 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: Don't stress it… we're all here to work together… just excuse my ranting about #kittens in the process :-D
Dec 08 18:43:13 *	[BoltIssueBall] starts to meow at gawainlynch… *purr* *purr*
Dec 08 18:43:27 <Bopp>	that's about it for me. You all should let me know if i can help out on things you're working at. 
Dec 08 18:43:38 <Bopp>	(is #4560 gtg?)
Dec 08 18:43:38 -[BoltIssueBall]/#boltcms-	#4560 [open] [Deprecations] v3 removals https://github.com/bolt/bolt/pull/4560 
Dec 08 18:43:39 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: Also, I think that carsonfull and I in particular are slightly failing at our communication 
Dec 08 18:43:43 <gawainlynch>	Yes please
Dec 08 18:44:06 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: We are trying to revisit our failing there
Dec 08 18:44:11 <[BoltGitHubBot]>	[bolt] bobdenotter pushed 11 new commits to master: http://git.io/vR9Ub
Dec 08 18:44:11 <[BoltGitHubBot]>	bolt/master 58bf64d Gawain Lynch: Remove Helpers\String
Dec 08 18:44:11 <[BoltGitHubBot]>	bolt/master b2d1486 Gawain Lynch: Remove Library::hackislyParseRegexTemplates()
Dec 08 18:44:11 <[BoltGitHubBot]>	bolt/master db63cd9 Gawain Lynch: Deprecate Bolt\Users class
Dec 08 18:44:18 <carsonfull>	Due to my busyness and available working hours are sleepy time for EU
Dec 08 18:44:36 <Bopp>	Don't worry about it, just let me know if i can help out.
Dec 08 18:44:37 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: yeah, it probably more leans on me mate :-)
Dec 08 18:44:40 <carsonfull>	partly*
Dec 08 18:45:05 <gawainlynch>	OK… carsonfull can you then let loose on our stuff please
Dec 08 18:45:07 <Bopp>	otherwise i'll just keep on working on the smaller details, and finishing up my W/P-theme extension
Dec 08 18:45:30 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: Yeah, and the vase-2016 stuff should really come over the line too
Dec 08 18:45:35 <gawainlynch>	*base
Dec 08 18:45:54 <carsonfull>	Other stuff: I'm sure there is a phase two for tighter integration with new filesystem code. But I think before that we want to focus on v3 extension code
Dec 08 18:46:15 <Bopp>	right.. it's about time i start to prioritze that more.
Dec 08 18:46:39 <carsonfull>	Yeah I would agree with that theme
Dec 08 18:47:08 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: I am thinking that you and I should split fe/be more… and drive those as part of a coordinated effort
Dec 08 18:47:39 <Bopp>	gawainlynch: Yeah, might be a good idea. 
Dec 08 18:47:53 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: What is an estimation on your part of lead time to getting phase I of our extension stuff landed
Dec 08 18:48:15 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: Most of it is all-but-ready to go for a Phase I
Dec 08 18:49:03 <gawainlynch>	slick0: Are you around mate?
Dec 08 18:49:08 <carsonfull>	Ehmmm yeah there's still a few hours there
Dec 08 18:49:23 <carsonfull>	At least for phase I. Maybe autoloading changes can come in phase 2
Dec 08 18:49:34 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: Elaborate on "few"
Dec 08 18:50:09 <gawainlynch>	We need to give people something to work with is all… I get you're busy and I am endlessly nagging on :-(
Dec 08 18:50:21 <carsonfull>	"few" = gut estimation with no backing what so ever
Dec 08 18:50:35 <carsonfull>	Between 2 and 7
Dec 08 18:50:37 <carsonfull>	hours
Dec 08 18:50:47 <gawainlynch>	OK, let's offline it then
Dec 08 18:50:56 <carsonfull>	Yes please
Dec 08 18:51:11 <gawainlynch>	OK so rossriley, gawainlynch, slick0 & carsonfull… the remaining bit is documentation
Dec 08 18:51:16 <rossriley>	what? you versed offline
Dec 08 18:51:23 <rossriley>	*verbed
Dec 08 18:51:31 <carsonfull>	lol
Dec 08 18:51:43 <carsonfull>	slick0: should definitely chime in first here
Dec 08 18:51:45 <gawainlynch>	rossriley: Hanging out with 'Muricans too much
Dec 08 18:52:11 <Bopp>	:-D
Dec 08 18:52:16 <gawainlynch>	Yeah, trying to ping him
Dec 08 18:52:25 <gawainlynch>	New workplace, new schedule
Dec 08 18:52:33 <carsonfull>	I want to remove the "version" notes for master and v3 doc branches and then we should be able to commit away on the v3 branch
Dec 08 18:52:55 <carsonfull>	And then we just need to get a multi-version deployment setup
Dec 08 18:52:56 <gawainlynch>	yes, taken… but we need to think in terms of turning it over
Dec 08 18:53:09 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: think time lines mate
Dec 08 18:53:23 <carsonfull>	What's your question then?
Dec 08 18:53:37 <gawainlynch>	Agreed it is all needed… but we need to plan how we're going to pull it off
Dec 08 18:54:01 <gawainlynch>	rossriley: What is your estimated effort and timeline on your docs?
Dec 08 18:54:08 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: ^ same
Dec 08 18:54:34 <gawainlynch>	I think there is probably 2-3 weeks (overall) for the stuff I am going to write up
Dec 08 18:54:47 <carsonfull>	Probably same for me then
Dec 08 18:54:50 <rossriley>	good question… i’d guess around the same
Dec 08 18:55:05 <gawainlynch>	But part of that is waiting on the extension stuff landing with a firm direction
Dec 08 18:55:08 <Bopp>	me too, I guess. :-)
Dec 08 18:55:15 <carsonfull>	another couple weeks for multi-version deployment too
Dec 08 18:55:44 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: Thanks, I left you out of that due to our part being so large, I figured you'd get yours in easily :-)
Dec 08 18:56:05 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: Don't forget we're heading into Christmas
Dec 08 18:56:24 <Bopp>	Well, apart from the widgets stuff i want to write, I'd like to restructure and overhaul the installation part. 
Dec 08 18:57:01 <Bopp>	basically, we should have _one_ place in the docs where we explain installation and have two (or three MAX) ways to install
Dec 08 18:57:06 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: Did you see what aerth posted the other day about (I think) the way Silverstripe do their install page?
Dec 08 18:57:17 <Bopp>	.. with a list of other ways to install bolt, at your own risk
Dec 08 18:57:26 <Bopp>	no, didn't see it
Dec 08 18:57:45 <Bopp>	we have waaaay too many ways to install bolt now
Dec 08 18:57:50 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: Sure, but I am going to get behind rossriley & carsonfull here that Composer should lead
Dec 08 18:58:08 <carsonfull>	:metal:
Dec 08 18:58:08 <Bopp>	nope, i'm against that
Dec 08 18:58:13 <gawainlynch>	…and I know how *not*popular that is
Dec 08 18:58:30 <gawainlynch>	Thing is, it has become the de-facto standard
Dec 08 18:59:04 <Bopp>	in our very special, non-standard and non-representative small group it might
Dec 08 18:59:12 <gawainlynch>	I know you are, but I wonder how much that is due to not understanding it?
Dec 08 18:59:23 <rossriley>	well to caveat it’s more about targeting….
Dec 08 18:59:35 <gawainlynch>	rossriley: Fire away…
Dec 08 18:59:40 <rossriley>	if you’re a developer and want to do any customisation, then composer is the way to go...
Dec 08 18:59:43 <Bopp>	I _understand_ it, i just prefer other ways. 
Dec 08 18:59:52 <rossriley>	but if you want a CMS to install on your cheap hosting server...
Dec 08 19:00:04 <rossriley>	then composer is not the way for you
Dec 08 19:00:18 <carsonfull>	rossriley: Because you have to run commands server side?
Dec 08 19:00:44 <rossriley>	well that market will only want to download and ftp up to their server
Dec 08 19:01:00 <Bopp>	When i'm going to work on that, we'll open an RFC / Poll thingy, and hash it out
Dec 08 19:01:01 <carsonfull>	I'm fine not having composer first. But I want to get rid of the "advanced" label
Dec 08 19:01:13 <Bopp>	carsonfull: sure thing
Dec 08 19:01:17 <gawainlynch>	Problem I have and am seeing is that as we move stuff around there is a lot of detritus left around that can cause problems
Dec 08 19:01:19 <rossriley>	i like the split we do on our developers / editors / designers
Dec 08 19:01:28 <gawainlynch>	Agreed
Dec 08 19:01:29 <rossriley>	composer is the preferred method for developers
Dec 08 19:01:52 <carsonfull>	Bopp: you/we should list pros and cons of each method too
Dec 08 19:02:04 <Bopp>	I wish our phone-home thingy tracked that too.. 
Dec 08 19:02:09 <gawainlynch>	But, question I have is *who is* installing 
Dec 08 19:02:19 <carsonfull>	rossriley: Aren't develop....^ this
Dec 08 19:02:46 <Bopp>	carsonfull: yes, i'm all for discusiing it, but for now I (personally) think composer should not be the 'preferred' way
Dec 08 19:03:22 *	Krands (~krands@2a02:a03f:ce0:b000:f606:69ff:fe0c:1d4a) has joined #boltcms
Dec 08 19:03:23 <carsonfull>	what is the preferred way? zip file?
Dec 08 19:03:24 <Krands>	hi
Dec 08 19:03:27 <gawainlynch>	Hehe… I already know that rossriley, Bopp & carsonfull disagree with my personal preference
Dec 08 19:03:50 <rossriley>	gawainlynch is that via punch cards ;-)
Dec 08 19:03:59 <gawainlynch>	#karma rossriley 
Dec 08 19:04:02 <[BoltIssueBall]>	BoltKarma for rossriley is now 192
Dec 08 19:04:07 <Bopp>	carsonfull: as of now, the "easiest" is copy/paste to curl the tarball
Dec 08 19:04:25 <carsonfull>	Bopp: not from git though right?
Dec 08 19:04:31 <gawainlynch>	rossriley: No, a variation on the multi-site approach… but i that is historical for me
Dec 08 19:04:31 <Bopp>	nope
Dec 08 19:04:37 <Bopp>	the "packaged" version
Dec 08 19:04:57 <carsonfull>	^ yeah I'm fine with that
Dec 08 19:05:13 <carsonfull>	I would prefer the composer version over the git version though
Dec 08 19:05:17 *	gawainlynch can't type
Dec 08 19:05:30 <carsonfull>	That would reduce the ammount of noobs pulling down master and being like WTF
Dec 08 19:05:34 <Bopp>	yeah, i can agree with that
Dec 08 19:05:41 <gawainlynch>	carsonfull: yeah… the git install is a bad idea… unless you're doing MS
Dec 08 19:05:47 <gawainlynch>	*bad*
Dec 08 19:05:57 <carsonfull>	Let's remove it
Dec 08 19:06:06 <gawainlynch>	People keep tying to commit crap and break it
Dec 08 19:06:11 <gawainlynch>	^ agreed
Dec 08 19:06:20 <Bopp>	also, after 3.0 we should discuss branching strategy again… People running on master costs _way_ too much time. 
Dec 08 19:06:25 <carsonfull>	Yeah too easy to make mistakes
Dec 08 19:06:47 <Bopp>	… and people don't read… They get master, run it, it breaks, they dismiss it. 
Dec 08 19:06:51 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: That is easy, just set the default branch to the stable branch
Dec 08 19:06:52 <carsonfull>	I think removing the git install would resolve that
Dec 08 19:07:05 <Bopp>	the default branch (master or whatever) should be stable-ish
Dec 08 19:07:15 <carsonfull>	Yeah I'm fine with that too. That's what Symfony does
Dec 08 19:07:20 <gawainlynch>	Agreed
Dec 08 19:07:32 <Bopp>	that _and_ switching the default branch a la symfony
Dec 08 19:07:38 <gawainlynch>	I am just against the "development" branch thing
Dec 08 19:07:59 <carsonfull>	I kinda am too
Dec 08 19:08:20 <gawainlynch>	The master branch should be tip
Dec 08 19:08:22 <gawainlynch>	EoS
Dec 08 19:08:27 <Bopp>	I think we have almost the same idea.. we'll get that sorted out. 
Dec 08 19:08:36 <gawainlynch>	^
Dec 08 19:08:38 <Bopp>	eos?
Dec 08 19:08:44 <gawainlynch>	End of Story
Dec 08 19:09:04 <Bopp>	i'm lost
Dec 08 19:09:10 <gawainlynch>	I missed the exclamation mark :-D
Dec 08 19:09:22 <gawainlynch>	"EoS" was like the ! on a new line
Dec 08 19:09:42 <gawainlynch>	i.e. "The master branch should be tip!!!"
Dec 08 19:09:44 <Bopp>	not making me less confused. :-)
Dec 08 19:10:05 <Bopp>	forget, let's move on
Dec 08 19:10:07 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: Try #beer
Dec 08 19:10:08 *	[BoltIssueBall] $this->app['bartender']->setDrink('beer')->setTab('gawainlynch')->serveAll();
Dec 08 19:10:08 <Bopp>	<it
Dec 08 19:10:22 <rossriley>	what’s the plan for documentation for 3.0...
Dec 08 19:10:25 <rossriley>	are we branching?
Dec 08 19:10:32 <Bopp>	rossriley: yes! 
Dec 08 19:10:35 <gawainlynch>	yes
Dec 08 19:10:38 <gawainlynch>	^
Dec 08 19:10:40 <carsonfull>	Yeah we have one
Dec 08 19:10:48 <Bopp>	we will need to be able to host multiple versions of the docs
Dec 08 19:10:49 <gawainlynch>	rossriley: carsonfull & slick0 have stepped up for it
Dec 08 19:11:16 <carsonfull>	Do not remove the "new in version 3.0 notes" though
Dec 08 19:11:34 <carsonfull>	That needs to be done in a branch that is applied to 2.2 and 3.0
Dec 08 19:11:40 <carsonfull>	We want to keep those branches mergable
Dec 08 19:12:21 <carsonfull>	"Merged 2.2 into master (3.0" So features that apply to 2.2 and 3.0 can be applied to both branches
Dec 08 19:12:37 <carsonfull>	Again, that's how Symfony, phpunit, etc. do it
Dec 08 19:12:55 <gawainlynch>	WFM
Dec 08 19:12:57 <Bopp>	seems sensible
Dec 08 19:13:15 <gawainlynch>	rossriley: Ninja Concerns?
Dec 08 19:13:22 <rossriley>	no
Dec 08 19:13:25 <gawainlynch>	OK… anything outstanding for anyone?
Dec 08 19:13:59 <Bopp>	two things!
Dec 08 19:14:08 <Bopp>	- Scrutinizer.. 
Dec 08 19:14:11 <gawainlynch>	Oh, as per topic title… there is a deprecation wiki page if people can keep an eye on updating
Dec 08 19:14:36 <Bopp>	will it stay "off" for the time being? or is there a prognosis for when it'll be workable again?
Dec 08 19:15:02 <gawainlynch>	Oh and everyone composer update when the pull
Dec 08 19:15:12 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: No firm idea
Dec 08 19:15:25 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: I run it on my personal fork
Dec 08 19:15:33 <Bopp>	ok
Dec 08 19:15:39 <gawainlynch>	…so I will know if it comes good
Dec 08 19:15:46 <Bopp>	second: how's the DB on the server holding up now?
Dec 08 19:15:52 <gawainlynch>	But red crosses on everything serves no purpose right now
Dec 08 19:15:59 <gawainlynch>	Not well
Dec 08 19:16:22 <gawainlynch>	I gave rossriley another process to kill today, which he's updated
Dec 08 19:16:23 <rossriley>	I think it should be better now….
Dec 08 19:16:25 <rossriley>	db server
Dec 08 19:16:34 <Bopp>	Are we confident that switching to postgres will make the troubles go away? 
Dec 08 19:16:39 <rossriley>	no
Dec 08 19:16:40 <gawainlynch>	No
Dec 08 19:17:00 <rossriley>	no need to switch… mysql is fine for the job...
Dec 08 19:17:04 <Bopp>	ok. That was my gut feeling to, so i'm glad you confirmed that. :-)
Dec 08 19:17:25 <gawainlynch>	But… we do need to reachetect our whole approach
Dec 08 19:18:02 <Bopp>	yes
Dec 08 19:18:14 <gawainlynch>	But that is a longer term thing… when we can target a new env. we can migrate 
Dec 08 19:18:20 <gawainlynch>	…and address as we go
Dec 08 19:18:40 <Bopp>	yes
Dec 08 19:18:47 <gawainlynch>	Speeling… I fails at its
Dec 08 19:18:54 <Bopp>	that was it for me, for now. 
Dec 08 19:19:04 <rossriley>	is sensio insight a suitable alternative for scrutinzer?
Dec 08 19:19:12 <rossriley>	in that it will integrate with github PRs etc?
Dec 08 19:19:16 <Bopp>	for next week, i'd like to put extensions-version-bumping on the agenda.
Dec 08 19:19:21 <gawainlynch>	There is also fabpot.io
Dec 08 19:19:37 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: Yeah, we just need to land that extension branch
Dec 08 19:19:55 <Bopp>	gawainlynch: that's why i'm not going to bring it up now. ;-)
Dec 08 19:19:56 <gawainlynch>	It will all be obvious when carsonfull lets others see that 
Dec 08 19:20:07 *	gawainlynch pokes carsonfull 
Dec 08 19:20:07 <carsonfull>	:)
Dec 08 19:20:29 <gawainlynch>	Bopp: Taken… just aware that there is a real and valid pressure here
Dec 08 19:20:56 <Bopp>	:-)
Dec 08 19:21:01 <gawainlynch>	We had hoped to have it down for today, but that Fs branch got me
Dec 08 19:21:17 <gawainlynch>	…and now there is real life in the way for both carsonfull and I
Dec 08 19:21:21 <gawainlynch>	(this week)
Dec 08 19:21:34 <gawainlynch>	But we'll push out what we can a.s.ap.
Dec 08 19:21:40 <Bopp>	cool
Dec 08 19:21:45 <gawainlynch>	Anyway… 
Dec 08 19:21:50 <gawainlynch>	</close>