Dev meeting 2016 01 19

Agenda

• Version 3 documentation site

Log

<gawainlynch> ping Bopp carsonfull phillipp rossriley SahAssar slick0 
<gawainlynch> … rarilaDroid 
<SahAssar> pong
<phillipp> wololo
<SahAssar> On phone though, so it's a slow pong
<phillipp> as long as its not a timeout
<phillipp> xD
<gawainlynch> No stress… usually carsonfull is on his phone too
<carsonfull> Laptop today
<rossriley> checking in
<gawainlynch> Cool… rarilaDroid will land on us just as we're done I'm guessing :-)
<gawainlynch> OK… so dropping PHP 5 support…
<gawainlynch> :-P
<phillipp> xD
<carsonfull> lololololol
<phillipp> i thought we will switch to nodejs
<gawainlynch> Bopp has asked to raise a point of conversation about getting things over the line for v3
<gawainlynch> Basically at the moment, a lot is stilling in 3 heads, rossriley, carsonfull & gawainlynch 
<Bopp> Helleu!
<Bopp> Sorry.. I was tweaking my PHPstorm settings. ^_^ 
<Bopp> Anyhow, yes.. 
<Bopp> Last sunday I was getting a bit annoyed that it's still pretty hard for me to find my way around the codebase...
<Bopp> .. and it feels that if I want to change small bugs, it's like I'm finxing only symptoms, because I can't oversee the whole thing. 
<Bopp> I think the sooner we get the new stuff documented, and out of Gawain, Ross and Carson's heads… 
<Bopp> The sooner simple webdevelopers like me can start helping out on actually fixing smally bugs, and getting 3.0 to stable. 
* evertalbers (~evertalbe@a82-161-236-249.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #boltcms
<Bopp> So, imho, that should be the priority, over just going over the list of issues..
<gawainlynch> OK… so I have the extension stuff about 50% done
<carsonfull> ^ documentation you mean?
<gawainlynch> rossriley: What do you have in the pipeline docs-wise?
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: Yes mate
<Bopp> carsonfull: Here it is: https://github.com/bolt/docs/compare/master...GawainLynch:v3-extensions?expand=1
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: I think with the stuff we have, I might be the better candidate for docs, and leave you to some of the polish on code?
<rossriley> bit more storage stuff, then need to do the repeating fields docs
<gawainlynch> rossriley: So it's all in motion with you, just a matter of time?
<rossriley> and I was also going to do the migrating / upgrading a 2.x site to 3.0
<rossriley> yes absolutely.
<gawainlynch> Ah, that's right yeah
<rossriley> do we have a domain we can use for docs on master?
<rossriley> or maybe get that build job going
<gawainlynch> I think one of the bigger problems is not that you, carsonfull & I aren't doing it… I think it's the visibility of some of our work on it
<Bopp> rossriley: Not yet, but i could set that up? 
<carsonfull> gawainlynch: Definitely. I'm wondering if some of the stuff we've changed doesn't merit docs, at least as a priority. Like sessions. The public interface hasn't changed there, besides a note about request cycle
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: I think a lot of that should be caught up in the extension stuff… or mabye not
<gawainlynch> Also, I know we're meeting weekly and visibility past that is hard… I am sort of short on ideas as to how we can communicate to the Bob's or the world on this… so ideas most welcome
<gawainlynch> I know Xiao is across a lot of it, just from reading code… so it is more the people who are not seasoned back-enders that we need to think about here 
<Bopp> One thing that would make my mind at ease is having a better view of which parts of the codebase are in flux, and. 
<rossriley> well I think we really need to shift more into Alpha mode and start stabilising
<Bopp> And, not having an idea if something is 10% or 80% dome. 
<gawainlynch> rossriley: Define "alpha"?
<phillipp> static frontend clickdummy :P
<gawainlynch> phillipp: You Façade PR is about to land then :-P
<phillipp> hahahaha ... not funny xD
<rossriley> well, we need to get more people running 3.0 both on new and upgraded sites
<gawainlynch> phillipp: Seriously though… as someone newer coming into this, how are you finding navigating master?
<gawainlynch> rossriley: FWIW, we have a couple of larger sites hitting the ground now with 3.x
<phillipp> tbh, i havent looked that much at master yet
<carsonfull> I feel like there is still a good ammount of work to do with filesystem usage and image/file fields from database
* rixbeck (~rixbeck@54009D67.dsl.pool.telekom.hu) has joined #boltcms
* rixbeck right join bolt_cms
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: I know you have lots of time and all, but wondering if you couldn't maybe put a brief tracker up for it, so that you can "claim" that ground… even down to classes or namespaces
<phillipp> but the code from master code looks much better than the 2.2.* which makes it easier
<gawainlynch> rixbeck: Yes mate, jump in
<rossriley> it’s basically going to be at least a month of ironing out bugs, and until we start that process, there’s always going to be more that could be done... 
<carsonfull> gawainlynch: It's hard to define that. Any place $app['resources']->getPath() is used
<Bopp> carsonfull: "lots to do" in order to make it perfectly the way you want it, or "good enough to ship" ?
<carsonfull> Bopp: Good question ;)
<rossriley> i personally think we should aim to ship end of february, and if that means leaving stuff so be it
<gawainlynch> We have a shipment due end of Feb, so yeah, we're on bobard
<gawainlynch> *board 
<Bopp> rossriley: If possible, i'd love that. iron out things in 3.1 and onwards
<gawainlynch> Yeah, possibly the remaining flux is going to be ironing out extensions, sessions & storage
<carsonfull> ^ Yeah I would still like time in 3.x to iron out things we don't want in 4.0
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: +1
<realitygaps> maybe a dev blog would be useful
<gawainlynch> Anyone here want to step up as editor?
<rossriley> why don’t we keep it simple and make a new tag on the forum?
<carsonfull> gawainlynch: I think you are the only one qualified
<Bopp> realitygaps: I've been thinking about that.. Keeping the plebs informed. :-)
<realitygaps> true forum maybe works for that
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: Honestly, until this flu clears properly… I am struggling with what is on my plate :-/
<Bopp> I think a dev blog would be nice.. Like our craft, pagekit and statamic "colleagues" have. 
* gawainlynch pushes the beer aside… can't be good for a flu
<phillipp> shall we use wp or ghost for the devblog?
* [BoltIssueBall] notes that if code was poetry, WordPress would have been written in Go…  It's more like "code is pooetry if you ask this bot"
<phillipp> :P
<carsonfull> I hear ya. And that is the overall problem as well. you, ross and I are completely booked and ppl want stuff "now"
<gawainlynch> phillipp: Don't forget… /kick works in IRC
<gawainlynch> :-P
<Bopp> phillipp: Let's use WordLa
<phillipp> haha i am quiet xD
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: Yeah, pretty much
<Bopp> carsonfull: Well, not _really_.. A big part is reducing the "bus factor", so others can actually step in and help out in a meaningful way.
<gawainlynch> Bopp: Sure, but there is a lot of stuff that needs to be done, and can be *cough* docs site *cough*
<Bopp> Or, to put it differently: If people "demand" stuff, we can actually tell them to put their money where their mouths are. 
<Bopp> gawainlynch: Yeah, I actually made a tiny start on that, this weekend. ;-)
<carsonfull> Bopp: I completely understand but it's hard to find time to explain best practices / design patterns / SOLID principles to non-devs
<Bopp> well, not "non devs" per se. Just devs who arent as intimate with the Bolt codebase as the three of you.
<gawainlynch> True, but a lot of this dev cycle has made things very much more familiar to those that know Symfony/Silex
<gawainlynch>  /Doctrine
<carsonfull> gawainlynch: You said you were talking to Xiao recently. What did he have to say about it?
<rossriley> I’ll happily pair with anyone who wants to help tackle something
<rossriley> might be easier that way… either on Slack / IRC and ask questions as you go
<carsonfull> ^ agreed. It's way easier adhoc than trying to document everything...and then maintain it
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: He was confused at first, as everything "changed"… but once he saw how *much* things were now so readable in Fabien Speak, it is/was easy to follow and understand the patterns
<gawainlynch> carsonfull & rossriley: agreed 
<carsonfull> Wonderful! :) That's good news!
<rossriley> but it would be good if we could start focussing only on blockers
<gawainlynch> Also just a side thought… can we agree on a hold off once we ship 3.0 before we open feature?
<gawainlynch> rossriley: Yeah
<Bopp> Ok, talking about this gave me an idea.. 
<carsonfull> We should branch then it wouldn't matter
<Bopp> I think it'd be REALLY helpful for people who are getting acquinted with the codebase to have a list like this: https://laravel.com/docs/5.0/facades#facade-class-reference
<carsonfull> i.e. release/3.0 release/3.1 master (aka 3.2)
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: Somewhat agree… but we are not going to get docs and tests finished for 3.0.0… it would be good to focus on some low hanging pineapples for a while and give rossriley, you and I some rest 
<Bopp> Earlier today I had to do a bunch of grepping to figure out where ->templateCooser as coming from.. 
<Bopp> then i got to $app['templatechooser'], then to the actual serviceprovider, and only then to the class. 
<Bopp> having a nice table that lists all of them would be nice to have. 
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: Yeah, and now that we all agree that the stable branch is the "active/default" branch, much more doable
<rossriley> Bopp: that’s a nice idea actually… service list
<carsonfull> Bopp: I'm for that... the silex plugin should resolve those methods for you though
<gawainlynch> rossriley & carsonfull: How are you two "holding up" as far as Bolt Burnout?
<phillipp> i like bopps idea too
<Bopp> carsonfull: If one gets that running, and if one is fortunate enough to use phpstorm, and a bunch of other ifs. 
<gawainlynch> phillipp: It might be something you can help Bopp with as you're pretty passionate about that stuff and would be a good way for you to ramp up knowledge
<Bopp> we cannot require people to use PHPstorm
<carsonfull> gawainlynch: Fading a little
<carsonfull> Bopp: Of course. And in that case the list is helpful
<carsonfull> I would definitely like a break after 3.0 is out
<Bopp> Ok, so i will start on that list.. Phillipp, wanna help? 
<phillipp> gawainlynch: you meant the list? well, that means i have to get into the codebase, but i wouldnt say "no" to that
<rixbeck> Bopp: and what if we annotate them first in code accurately?.. then PhpStorm, Eclipse or others really can get help
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: Yeah, I think a few of us *need* that break… hence me raising it
<gawainlynch> phillipp: Yeah, and as rossriley said… there is Slack and IRC to ask questions on
<Bopp> rixbeck: We'd have to annotate them with _every_ use.. It'd make the codebase huge with comments alone
<carsonfull> rixbeck: We have mostly. But you can't reference calls directly from container
<carsonfull> The better thing to do is stop using $app everywhere and pass in the service in the constructor
<rixbeck> carsonfull: we dont for sure
<rixbeck> can't
<carsonfull> rixbeck: how do you annotate $app['foo']->bar();? You have to assign $foo = $app['foo']; first
<rixbeck> carsonfull: I agree
<gawainlynch> rixbeck: We can pass in services more, we have done a tonne of changes like that in this dev
<carsonfull> Better to move to DI in general
<Bopp> but not for 3.0 ;-)
<carsonfull> Right
<gawainlynch> Well, we've already done a lot of it for 3.0, Bopp 
<gawainlynch> Not saying do more
<gawainlynch> Just keep up the trend
<Bopp> yes, we _should_ do more.. 
<Bopp> but right now we should focus on stabilizing and releasing, and _then_ uproot some more stuff. 
<gawainlynch> Bopp: That *is* our point
<carsonfull> of course
<Bopp> :-)
<rixbeck> Bopp: until you need to use ctrl-H :-P
<gawainlynch> rixbeck: How easy/hard was 3.0-alpha for you?
<gawainlynch> SahAssar: Are you still around… and awake?
<rixbeck> gawainlynch: wasn't hard but I must confess had no time still to dive in deep enough
<gawainlynch> rixbeck: Good to know
<SahAssar> Yep :)
<Bopp> rixbeck: What does `CTRL-H` do in your editor? ;-)
<SahAssar> Just listening to the good conversations :)
<rixbeck> Bopp: find in files ... (eclipse key map scheme)
<gawainlynch> SahAssar: So one of the outstanding points is base-2016… I had some feedback today that it "feels" to hard to grok for someone new to making templates… a specific example of that was the random images (just relaying here… not a FE at all)
<carsonfull> Bopp: command + shift + F for you (mac)
<Bopp> rixbeck: Ah! I use old-fashioned grep for that. :-)
<rixbeck> gawainlynch: the new storage / repo system must I discover 
<gawainlynch> Darn you people… learn to use `ack` :-P
<SahAssar> gawainlynch: Yep, that could be torn out replaced
<rixbeck> geeks
<Bopp> haha
<gawainlynch> rixbeck: Yeah, that one is a bit to get your head around… but rossriley has already written some good docs on it
<SahAssar> Just having one "default" image should be enough, right?
<gawainlynch> But we need more… and there is only one rossriley 
<chloroformiate> Hi
<gawainlynch> SahAssar: I am the wrong person to ask on that
<carsonfull> gawainlynch Bopp: With ack/grep can you click on the result to open that file and go to that line? ;)
<gawainlynch> SahAssar & Bopp: it would be good if you tow could spend some short term time collaborating on that
<rixbeck> gawainlynch: :) ... I'm on it.. 
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: Why click
<carsonfull> gawainlynch: or arrow keys + enter
<gawainlynch> ack -l ">fooBar\(" | xargs pstorm
<rixbeck> phewww
<SahAssar> Sounds good :)
<Bopp> carsonfull: Yes, there's a zsh / ohmyzsh thingy for it.. 
<carsonfull> gawainlynch: Yeah because that shows up in a nice readable list
<Bopp> i grep, doubleclick, and it opens in sublime
<carsonfull> Ah zsh. Haven't used that yet
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: I know… much easier to read than GUI crap
<carsonfull> off topic!! Let's wrap this up. I'm hungry!
<gawainlynch> OK
<Bopp> Ha, yes. 
* evertalbers breaks in
<evertalbers> Hi
<gawainlynch> rossriley: You've gone quiet… anything to add?
<phillipp> pizza for carsonfull!
<evertalbers> Just want to say that if you don’t tell too much too soon about new features, there won’t be too much pressure on your shoulders.
<gawainlynch> evertalbers: You have something you'd like to add to tonight's agenda?
<Bopp> One more thing from me -> Phillipp and a few others started the with the early stages of planning a bolt conference later on. 
<evertalbers> That was it. Just happened to ‘be here’
<gawainlynch> Fair call
<gawainlynch> carsonfull: Grab lunch mate
<carsonfull> o/
<Bopp> carsonfull: laters, man! 
<phillipp> yeah bolt conference. slow progress for now because things have to be cleared first.
<gawainlynch> OK… so Bopp, you can collaborate with SahAssar getting 2016 over the line this/next week?
<gawainlynch> phillipp: Yeah… let's see how that unfolds over the next few weeks
<gawainlynch> OK, well rossriley & Bopp are out for beers
<gawainlynch> carsonfull needs food
<Bopp> gawainlynch: Yeah, It's been on my plate for way too long now.. 
<gawainlynch> Thank mate, it's just something I can't tackel
<gawainlynch> *tackle
<gawainlynch> OK, nothing else?
<Bopp> I'm out for today! 
<gawainlynch> </meeting>