IrcLog2008 07 14

William Deegan edited this page Jan 14, 2016 · 2 revisions
18:53:15  *      [GregNoel](GregNoel) is no longer marked as being away 
18:58:55  *      stevenknight (n=[stevenkn@69.36.227.131](mailto:stevenkn@69.36.227.131)) has joined #scons 
19:00:04  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Hi, Steven.  Gary has said he would likely be late; anybody else here for the bug party? 
19:00:21  <stevenknight> i don't see Bill, and he's the other stalwart 
19:00:57  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     And only you and I commented in the spreadsheet, and you didn't finish. 
19:00:59  <stevenknight> i'm just getting into the Current Issues spreadsheet -- I'm taking th late shuttle home tonight 
19:01:08  <stevenknight> right, just catching up 
19:01:17  <stevenknight> the existing comments were mine from last week 
19:02:03  *      garyo-home (n=[chatzill@209-6-158-38.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com](mailto:chatzill@209-6-158-38.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com)) has joined #scons 
19:02:13  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Gary's not that late, after all 
19:02:24  <garyo-home>   Hi Greg. 
19:02:44  <garyo-home>   Hi, Steven. 
19:02:55  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Hey, Gary.  You said you would be late. 
19:03:23  <garyo-home>   Snuck out just in time, or mostly. 
19:03:43  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I think Steven is in a different window, updating the current issues spreadsheet; he should be back soon. 
19:03:36  <stevenknight> hey gary 
19:03:39  <garyo-home>   Hi 
19:03:43  <stevenknight> how'd your release go last week? 
19:03:56  <stevenknight> [GregNoel](GregNoel)'s ESP ++ 
19:04:12  <garyo-home>   Release went great.  I haven't got a lot of time for scons these days due to things at work. 
19:04:31  <garyo-home>   We're growing the company, got new investors, new CEO... lots of new & exciting stuff 
19:04:39  <garyo-home>   but it takes up all my time & then some. 
19:04:43  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     The disadvantage of working for a living... 
19:04:55  <garyo-home>   ...says the retired Unix guru. 
19:05:03  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     {;-} 
19:05:03  <stevenknight> :-) 
19:05:27  <garyo-home>   So anyway, that's all in apology for the fact that I haven't touched the spreadsheets. 
19:05:20  <stevenknight> well, shall we make as good use of the time as we can, then? 
19:05:39  <garyo-home>   Yes, let's dive in.  Current issues first? 
19:05:42  <stevenknight> i might disconnect briefly in ~10 minutes, i have to transfer shuttles 
19:05:45  <stevenknight> yes current issues 
19:05:47  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2124 
19:06:12  <stevenknight> 1.x p3 me 
19:06:20  <garyo-home>   ok w/ me. 
19:06:23  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I admit a traceback is unfriendly, and something should be done about that, but the problem is that ... 
19:06:34  <stevenknight> parts of the VS revamp will try to clean up some general windows issues 
19:06:40  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     he's really using a different name for the file. 
19:07:08  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     With that said, 1.x p3 makes as much sense as anything. 
19:07:23  <stevenknight> okay, let's go with it 
19:07:27  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     done 
19:07:29  *      bdbaddog (n=[bdeegan@adsl-71-131-30-2.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net](mailto:bdeegan@adsl-71-131-30-2.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)) has joined #scons 
19:07:36  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Hey, Bill. 
19:07:39  <garyo-home>   2121 has come up a few times on the list, right? 
19:07:41  <garyo-home>   Hi Bill. 
19:07:51  <stevenknight> Bill! 
19:08:29  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Yes, and I think there may be dups, but I couldn't find them. 
19:08:41  <stevenknight> what is there about the confusing [VariantDir](VariantDir) feature that *hasn't* come up a few times on the list? 
19:08:46  <garyo-home>   The patch seems reasonable on the face of it. 
19:09:05  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     (patch?) 
19:09:19  <garyo-home>   212 has a patch and a test. 
19:09:23  <garyo-home>   sorry 2121. 
19:10:07  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Ah, it looks like that came along after I commented. 
19:10:09  <garyo-home>   Anyway, I agree w/ you guys on 1.x p2. 
19:10:38  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Yes, 1.x p2 is even stronger with a patch to work from. 
19:10:50  <stevenknight> yeah, 1.x p2 -- the patch looks good (haven't looked at the test case) and should be rewarded 
19:10:59  <garyo-home>   ok, good. 
19:11:01  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     done 
19:11:54  <garyo-home>   2122 is a way not to have to use src_builder iiuc? 
19:12:04  <stevenknight> right, essentially 
19:12:13  <stevenknight> let you add new src_builders dynamically 
19:12:13  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I don't know if this is the best API, but I agree that it something should be done. 
19:12:45  <stevenknight> and with some supported API so everyone doesn't have to cut-and-paste all the obj_builder stuff that's initialized in Tool/<ins>init</ins>.py 
19:12:43  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I published the long-promised requirements for better messages earlier today; that has a comment about this issue. 
19:13:10  <stevenknight> sounds good; i'll take a look when we're done 
19:13:12  <garyo-home>   func name is maybe not perfect but yes something like this is good. 
19:13:50  <stevenknight> any objections to sticking with 1.x p3? 
19:13:50  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I think better messages and this are indirectly related, so fixing one will have an impact on both 
19:14:04  <garyo-home>   But since it's an enhancement, I'd say low pri for 1.x (p3 max) or else later. 
19:14:27  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     My suggestion is the same as better messages, and I don't remember what that was assigned. 
19:14:53  <garyo-home>   1458? 
19:15:08  <garyo-home>   um, nope. 
19:15:09  <stevenknight> greg, what was the thread from earlier today re: better messages? 
19:15:12  <stevenknight> you have me intrigued now 
19:15:28  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     wiki [BetterMessages](BetterMessages) 
19:15:35  <stevenknight> okay 
19:15:36  <stevenknight> 2123: 
19:15:51  <stevenknight> consensus 1.x p2 ? 
19:15:58  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     fine with me 
19:16:09  <stevenknight> who? 
19:16:11  <garyo-home>   ok.  I can probably do it. 
19:16:42  <garyo-home>   It looks pretty easy. 
19:16:42  <stevenknight> okay, thanks -- just added your name to the spreadsheet 
19:16:45  <stevenknight> 2125: 
19:17:30  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2122: [http://scons.org/wiki/BetterErrorMessages](http://scons.org/wiki/BetterErrorMessages) 
19:17:41  <garyo-home>   2125: if Tools inherited from a base class, they wouldn't have to implement exists(). 
19:18:09  <stevenknight> have to switch buses, might drop momentarily 
19:18:46  <garyo-home>   ... and if they were subclasses it'd be easy to see what's a Tool. 
19:18:51  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Tools are not classes; they're modules (i.e., imported) 
19:19:34  <garyo-home>   Yeah (though there are other types, but classes aren't among them).  I guess we can't really change that. 
19:20:01  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Not easily; there's also the backward-compatible issue. 
19:20:22  <garyo-home>   A module can inherit stuff, but doing that just to avoid writing 'return True' seems overkill. 
19:20:52  <garyo-home>   I think this bug is making a mountain out of a molehill; should be 2.x low pri if anything. 
19:21:25  <garyo-home>   Greg, what you say in the ssheet is spot on. 
19:21:42  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I agree; it's overkill.  That's why I suggested wontfix. 
19:21:52  <garyo-home>   I agree, wontfix. 
19:22:13  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     If Steven makes it back without dropping, we can have a consensus. 
19:22:38  *      sgk_ (n=[stevenkn@69.36.227.135](mailto:stevenkn@69.36.227.135)) has joined #scons 
19:22:46  <garyo-home>   .. and here he is now. 
19:22:50  <sgk_> I'm back -- thought I was still connected but I guess not 
19:22:54  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     We'll probably be changing this interface with the toolchain stuff, but I'd like to leave it until then. 
19:23:09  <sgk_> still on the exists() thing? 
19:23:14  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Yes 
19:23:11  <garyo-home>   Greg & I say "wontfix" 2125. 
19:23:16  <garyo-home>   yes, exists(). 
19:23:35  <sgk_> do new-style classes allow it to be treated like gary was suggested (re: subclassing)? 
19:23:45  <sgk_> old-style classes definitely didn't 
19:24:04  <garyo-home>   don't know 
19:24:06  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I don't think so... 
19:24:15  <sgk_> okay, well not terribly important 
19:24:41  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     do we have a consensus? 
19:24:46  <sgk_> this was from a colleague lobbying me re: all the cut-and-paste "def exists(): return True" at the bottom of all the written modules 
19:24:58  <sgk_> wontfix is fine with me 
19:25:10  <garyo-home>   you can blame it on us. 
19:25:22  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     yeah, we're hardcore 
19:25:34  <sgk_> lol 
19:25:43  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2126? 
19:25:44  <sgk_> 2126 then: 
19:26:11  <sgk_> no real strong feelings so far -- any reason not to leave it 1.x p4? 
19:26:11  <garyo-home>   Having these as functions would be nice, I say 1.x p4 
19:26:25  <sgk_> done 
19:26:28  <sgk_> 2127: 
19:26:40  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Moving to Python 2.2 would allow these to be written as simple names, 
19:26:51  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     but that would require waiting until 2.x 
19:27:04  <sgk_> ah, that should be at least noted in the issue 
19:27:12  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK, wilco 
19:27:15  <sgk_> i'll add a comment in the background here 
19:28:18  <sgk_> 2127: 
19:28:53  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2127, I'd like to spin this off onto someone who has the background with all the variations. 
19:29:23  <garyo-home>   I do, but even with that it's not clear what the right answer is. 
19:29:23  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     But who?  I surely don't. 
19:29:32  <bdbaddog>     Good evening all. 
19:29:52  <garyo-home>   If a user says RPATH=XXX, should we try to provide those semantics by jiggling other linker args? 
19:29:57  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Hey, Bill... 
19:30:01  <garyo-home>   Hi, Bill. 
19:30:29  <bdbaddog>     Greetings finally back from HI, and then OC. phew. 
19:30:41  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Somehow, autoconf figures it out, since they support rpath, but ... 
19:30:44  <sgk_> sounds like there's enough uncertainty that 2127 should either be a research for someone 
19:30:55  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     ... the complexity looks intimidating. 
19:31:20  <garyo-home>   I'll be happy to research it.  But at some point scons has to say "this compiler doesn't support RPATH (or not well enough)" and punt. 
19:31:25  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Your research or my research?  They're different. 
19:31:21  <sgk_> or a 1.x-p3-and-reprioritize if "research" is too much of a backburner 
19:31:40  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Ah, your research. 
19:31:45  <sgk_> yours (i.e., should be investigated) 
19:31:49  <garyo-home>   I have a bunch of Macs with different OSes, so I can at least poke them all. 
19:31:49  <sgk_> heh 
19:31:58  <sgk_> okay, garyo research 
19:32:15  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     My research takes priority over 1.0, i.e., research it now. 
19:32:24  <sgk_> i think research should be Greg's interpretation (AIIU, investigate for reprioritization) 
19:32:31  <sgk_> but in practice that doesn't seem how we're handling it 
19:32:38  <sgk_> right 
19:32:51  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     but if Gary wants to do it, I'll let him have it. 
19:33:04  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     garyo research 
19:33:05  <garyo-home>   (Hmm, do I have any research items?  Not sure...) what I want is 1.x research (i.e. research as a priority) 
19:33:05  <sgk_> okay, gary, research 
19:33:30  <sgk_> that's kind of what I've morphed 1.x p3 into, mentally 
19:33:34  <garyo-home>   but I'll get something done on it. 
19:33:47  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     no, research and 1.x are both milestones; can't change the names of the priorities. 
19:33:51  <sgk_> I figure we're going to have a big reprioritization of 1.x issues at some point 
19:33:57  <sgk_> to break them down into manageable chunks 
19:34:04  <sgk_> cause there's just too much there right now 
19:34:12  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     You do have a talent for understatement {;-} 
19:34:44  <garyo-home>   oh well, that just means there may be lots of 1.x's 
19:34:59  <garyo-home>   (or we slip things til 2.0 of course) 
19:35:16  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Aye, there's the slip, er, rub 
19:35:21  <garyo-home>   anyway, 2128 is next... 
19:35:29  <sgk_> maybe.  we need to discuss releasing 1.0 (I think 0.98.5 has baked enough) 
19:35:32  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2128, David 
19:35:45  <sgk_> and when/how to branch so there's a place for relevant dev work 
19:35:54  <sgk_> 2128:  david 
19:36:04  <garyo-home>   2128 Includes doc patch, I say 1.0 or 1.0.x. 
19:36:15  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     True, but not quite yet; one issue later may need to be slipped in. 
19:36:23  <garyo-home>   Steven: yes, it's getting to that point. 
19:36:48  <garyo-home>   We can branch it any time and just merge things that need to go in. 
19:37:00  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     You're looking at 2129; no patch for 2128 
19:37:10  <sgk_> 2128:  1.0 for the doc patch 
19:37:19  <sgk_> ?  i see an attachment to 2128 
19:37:23  <garyo-home>   me too. 
19:37:39  <garyo-home>   a trivial two-liner. 
19:37:53  <sgk_> 2129 is another david Fortran thing, though 
19:38:22  <garyo-home>   2129: wow, a patch which is *just* a test. 
19:38:27  <sgk_> 2129:  anyone, anytime (it's an added test) 
19:38:29  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Yeah, but is it the doc or the implementation? 
19:38:45  <garyo-home>   2128: doc.  2129: test for implementation. 
19:39:02  <sgk_> no, greg's suggesting that although 2128 might "fix" the doc, 
19:39:12  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK, 2128 1.0 David, 2129 anytime 
19:39:13  <sgk_> the doc might be right (the *CPP* variables *should* be in the command line) 
19:39:16  <sgk_> and the code needs fixing 
19:39:22  <garyo-home>   aha, I see. 
19:39:57  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     David either way. 
19:40:00  <garyo-home>   We would need David to answer that. 
19:40:07  *      stevenknight has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 
19:40:14  <garyo-home>   there goes Steven. 
19:40:18  <sgk_> right, done 2128: david, 1.0, with a note about the doc-vs.-code 
19:40:20  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Ah, we just lost Steven... 
19:40:25  <sgk_> hey , where'd i go? 
19:40:39  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     vanished in to the AEther... 
19:40:46  <garyo-home>   hm, my irc client said your connection timed out. 
19:40:41  <sgk_> (that was the connection through the other bus timing out) 
19:41:04  <garyo-home>   I see. 
19:41:17  <sgk_> okay, 2129:  anyone, anytime 
19:41:28  <sgk_> 2130: 
19:41:50  <garyo-home>   2130, doc license issues: can we satisfy them somehow, maybe a CC license of some kind? 
19:42:03  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Have you figured out what he really wants? 
19:42:06  <garyo-home>   That would let you still print the UG? 
19:42:17  <sgk_> CC license would be the right thing, i suppose 
19:42:30  <sgk_> this is probably a research, me to figure out how where to draw the line 
19:42:38  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK, works for me 
19:42:44  <sgk_> yeah, they want to make the UG available on (e.g.) Debian 
19:43:01  <sgk_> but it's copyright me, not the SCons Foundation, and it's unclear if they can legallly do it 
19:43:03  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     although getting it into 1.0 would be good 
19:43:09  <sgk_> i'll sort it out 
19:43:14  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK, works for me 
19:43:20  <garyo-home>   ok 
19:43:28  <sgk_> just changed it to research (Greg's research) 
19:43:48  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Ah, really? 
19:44:04  <sgk_> well, i won't promise, but I do conceptually agree with it 
19:44:26  <garyo-home>   ok, 2131 (glob needs to sort)? 
19:44:28  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I thought I understood the initial request, but not since. 
19:44:31  <sgk_> in practice, right now i'm prioritizing UG updates over research to get 1.0 out 
19:44:59  <sgk_> 2131:  is there any downside to making Glob() return a deterministic order? 
19:45:02  <sgk_> i can't think of one 
19:45:18  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     glob.glob doesn't sort; why should Glob? 
19:45:21  <garyo-home>   We should definitely sort it. 
19:45:31  <sgk_> principle of least surprise 
19:45:34  <garyo-home>   Who would want it in random order? 
19:45:45  <bdbaddog>     and you could use --random if you did... 
19:45:53  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     "least astonishment"  yes, you're probably right. 
19:46:00  <sgk_> having SCons rebuild things whenever it feels like it because you use Glob() seems really unehlpful 
19:46:23  <garyo-home>   right, I think this should be 1.0.x p2.  Easy and helpful. 
19:46:33  <bdbaddog>     gotta run. hey can someone look at my comments bug 243. I did some research and seems like a real bug where we thought it was doc bug before. 
19:46:53  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     later 
19:46:56  <sgk_> okay, we'll try to look at 243 
19:46:57  <sgk_> later 
19:47:03  <garyo-home>   bye 
19:47:14  <sgk_> 2131:  1.0.x p2? 
19:47:36  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     ok, I guess 
19:47:55  <garyo-home>   fine w/ me. 
19:48:12  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2132 
19:48:34  <sgk_> 2132:  Ralf's fixes tend to be pretty good 
19:48:40  <sgk_> i haven't lookat the code on this one yet, though 
19:48:44  <sgk_> looked at 
19:48:45  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     sgk_, I'm pretty sure it was an earlier issue 
19:48:55  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     It uses subprocess 
19:49:00  <garyo-home>   Can we use subprocess.Popen()? 
19:49:16  <sgk_> should be able to, the compatibility layer has a subprocess module that works under 1.5.2 
19:49:27  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     we hope 
19:50:01  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     If we can't find the dup, I move for 1.0.x 
19:50:16  <sgk_> agreed 
19:50:22  <sgk_> 1.0.x... p3? 
19:50:28  <garyo-home>   That early?  OK I guess since there's a good patch. 
19:50:28  <sgk_> or p2? 
19:50:44  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     yes, and if we find the dup, make it the same. 
19:50:48  <sgk_> ~5 minutes until i leave the bus 
19:51:04  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     and we're not even out of the current issues... 
19:51:09  <sgk_> i'll volunteer to hunt for the dup 
19:51:12  <sgk_> so put my name on it 
19:51:16  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     ok, done 
19:51:24  <sgk_> two weeks' worth 
19:51:37  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     but only five new ones 
19:51:42  <sgk_> true 
19:51:47  <garyo-home>   2133: invalid, or should we try to handle [AddPostAction](AddPostAction) differently (no implicit dep on cmd)? 
19:51:53  <sgk_> 2133:  i think this case should work 
19:52:01  <sgk_> it used to, and it doesn't seem unreasonable 
19:52:09  <sgk_> ("should be made to work (again)" that is) 
19:52:33  <garyo-home>   [AddPostAction](AddPostAction) cmds don't really need to be dependencies anyway, so I agree. 
19:52:39  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     sounds like a hack... 
19:52:49  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Hmmm...  I think they do 
19:52:53  <garyo-home>   No, because [AddPostAction](AddPostAction) is not a builder. 
19:53:01  <sgk_> agree w/gary 
19:53:11  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     think of a local command that JFCLs through the binary 
19:53:12  <sgk_> plus it's easier to add an explicit Depends() if you really want that dependency 
19:53:18  <garyo-home>   Builder cmds should get auto deps, but not Pre/Post actions. 
19:53:20  <sgk_> than to shut it off 
19:53:26  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     the command should be rebuilt if it changes 
19:53:52  <sgk_> hmm, Greg i do see your point -- SCM purity would require it 
19:53:53  <garyo-home>   Greg: hm, I have to think about that. 
19:54:11  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     we're not going to settle this now; not enough time; resume here next time? 
19:54:14  <sgk_> since you can't know the [AddPostAction](AddPostAction)() is irrelevant 
19:54:22  <sgk_> works for me 
19:54:36  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK, then, when next? 
19:54:38  <garyo-home>   ok.  Same time, same place, next week? 
19:54:45  <sgk_> same time, etc. 
19:54:53  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     19h00?  or 17h00? 
19:55:02  <garyo-home>   1900 is good for me, how about you? 
19:55:07  <sgk_> 19h00 is fine with me 
19:55:13  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     fine with me 
19:55:16  <garyo-home>   Greg: I'll do the data entry this week from your irc log 
19:55:17  <sgk_> done 
19:55:25  <sgk_> gary:  thanks 
19:55:43  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     ok, although I have the time this week 
19:55:50  <sgk_> i'll probably start a release@ thread re: really releasing 1.0 
19:56:02  <garyo-home>   sgk_: I was just going to suggest that. 
19:56:14  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     good idea 
19:56:28  <garyo-home>   Greg: thanks but I think I can handle it, gotta contribute somehow... 
19:56:49  <garyo-home>   plus I'll be on vacation 23rd - 6th 
19:56:50  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Personally, I'd rather you were editing the spreadsheets... 
19:57:06  <sgk_> disconnect in < 15 seconds, later 
19:57:08  <garyo-home>   OK, I agree.  I'll make some time for that too. 
19:57:19  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     ok, later 
19:57:24  *      sgk_ has quit ("Leaving") 
19:57:25  <garyo-home>   bye guys. 
19:57:29  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     cul 
19:57:35  *      garyo-home has quit ("[ChatZilla](ChatZilla) 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]") 
19:57:37  *      [GregNoel](GregNoel) has been marked as being away 

Clone this wiki locally
You can’t perform that action at this time.
You signed in with another tab or window. Reload to refresh your session. You signed out in another tab or window. Reload to refresh your session.
Press h to open a hovercard with more details.