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IrcLog2009 04 29
William Deegan edited this page Jan 14, 2016
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17:10:22 * bdbaddog (n=[chatzill@adsl-71-142-86-81.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net](mailto:chatzill@adsl-71-142-86-81.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)) has joined #scons
17:18:36 * Jason_at_intel (n=[chatzill@bementil-116.illinois.prairieinet.net](mailto:chatzill@bementil-116.illinois.prairieinet.net)) has joined #scons
17:27:26 <bdbaddog> Hi Jason
17:27:43 * garyo-home (n=[chatzill@209-6-158-38.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com](mailto:chatzill@209-6-158-38.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com)) has joined #scons
17:27:59 * [GregNoel](GregNoel) is no longer marked as being away
17:31:33 <garyo-home> hi
17:32:00 <Jason_at_intel> hi
17:32:09 <Jason_at_intel> sorry was away from the computer
17:32:23 * stevenknight (n=[stevenkn@67.218.104.94](mailto:stevenkn@67.218.104.94)) has joined #scons
17:32:30 <garyo-home> big group here tonight, looks like!
17:32:36 * stevenknight is now known as sk
17:32:48 <sk> hey all
17:32:55 <Jason_at_intel> hi
17:33:02 <sk> hey Jason_at_inetl
17:33:54 <garyo-home> Hi Steven
17:34:25 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Hi, guys...
17:34:30 <garyo-home> Hi, Greg.
17:34:45 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Steven has only ~45 minutes on the shuttle, but can connect again after he gets home (a break of ~15 minutes, he says). That's not enough time to do all the issues and then discuss the 1.3 plans. (I'd like to see what's happening, as I have a gap coming up next week when I could spent full time on the changes between 1.3 and 2.0.)
17:34:45 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I propose that we go as far as we can with the issues, but break when Steven is maybe 15 minutes from his stop and discuss 1.3 plans so that they won't get dropped.
17:34:45 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Then we can decide if we want to reconvene when he gets home or leave the remaining issues for next time.
17:34:45 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Comments?
17:35:14 <garyo-home> ok
17:35:47 <sk> worksforme
17:36:14 <garyo-home> ok, shall we dive in?
17:36:16 <garyo-home> 148?
17:36:39 <sk> consensus 1.3+doc, p3, bill?
17:36:52 <garyo-home> sure. Bill, I like your text in the bug report.
17:36:54 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done; glad it's not me
17:38:07 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 633
17:38:23 <sk> 633: consensus 2.x p3 Lukas Erlingen
17:38:27 <garyo-home> 633 2.x p3 lukas
17:38:32 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
17:38:36 <sk> 790:
17:38:50 <garyo-home> bill already emailed OP, great!
17:38:57 <sk> go bill!
17:39:02 <sk> for classification?
17:39:11 <sk> how about future, p3, +MinGW keyword?
17:39:27 <garyo-home> works4me
17:39:29 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I'll agree
17:39:48 <sk> done
17:39:50 <sk> 797:
17:39:51 <garyo-home> 797, 3.x p3 draft choice
17:40:03 <sk> done
17:40:12 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
17:40:30 <sk> (browser lag...)
17:40:49 <sk> (someone carry on)
17:40:50 <garyo-home> 798: hard to warn in this case.
17:41:03 <garyo-home> I think doc's the best we can do.
17:41:24 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> if the docs already say it's a global namespace, close as invalid
17:41:39 <garyo-home> I don't think the doc is that clear on it.
17:42:10 <sk> agree w/documenting this explicit case
17:42:17 <sk> [GregNoel](GregNoel) is technically correct
17:42:30 <sk> but not everyone immediately grasps that implication of "global namespace"
17:42:35 <sk> and I'm in favor of trying to be helpful
17:42:29 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> then 2.1 p2 Bill?
17:42:49 <garyo-home> Bill, if you want help w/ verbiage I can pitch in
17:43:02 <sk> 2.1 p2 bill, if it's ok w/him
17:43:50 <garyo-home> (bill?)
17:43:59 <sk> bdbaddog: ping
17:44:08 <Jason_at_intel> sk: global is as in global or global in environment
17:44:46 <garyo-home> global as in global.
17:45:02 <sk> Export("env") exports to a global namespace
17:44:59 <Jason_at_intel> thanks
17:45:01 <garyo-home> Let's just assign it to him & move on, he volunteered in the ssheet.
17:45:10 <sk> done
17:45:10 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
17:45:41 <garyo-home> 804 seems to have mutated far from what I originally reported.
17:46:22 <sk> 804: research, not me
17:46:24 <garyo-home> I don't know what a [LazyAction](LazyAction) is, but I can guess it gets in the way of this use case.
17:46:49 <garyo-home> 3.x p4 draft pick?? Unless Bill is interested?
17:47:07 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I'm not seeing any consensus; bypass?
17:47:08 <sk> garyo-home: there's a special hack in Action.py that looks for an action like '$SINGLE_VARIABLE_NAME'
17:47:38 <garyo-home> that explains why all the workarounds work, then.
17:47:39 <sk> if it finds that, it instantiates a special class that delays instantiation of the actual Action object until it's used
17:48:33 <garyo-home> I see, it's so the var can be lazy-evaled as late as possible.
17:48:17 <sk> what i'd really like is for us to revisit the underlying problem this was introduced to solve way back when because we have a lot more functionality now and could probably get rid of the hack by providing a transition to a less hacky solution
17:48:38 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> No time here; bypass until next time?
17:48:44 <garyo-home> ok w/ me
17:49:02 <sk> okay, defer
17:49:06 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
17:49:08 <sk> 806
17:49:11 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 806
17:49:26 <sk> consensus 2.x p4, who?
17:49:38 <garyo-home> I"ll contact OP
17:49:47 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
17:49:53 <sk> 810:
17:50:05 <sk> consensus future p2
17:50:12 <garyo-home> good
17:50:23 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Gary, yes, would need both revamped downstream dependencies and something like [DynamicSourceGenerator](DynamicSourceGenerator).
17:50:27 <sk> 813: consensus 2.x p3 Bill +dmd
17:50:39 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
17:50:48 <sk> 816: consensus 2.x p3 +Easy
17:50:56 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
17:51:06 <sk> 824: research Ariane
17:51:11 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> A note: Ariane Paola is her first name
17:51:25 <sk> (might be a stretch, but we'll kick it back if it seems outside her intended domain)
17:51:29 <sk> arianepaola, yt?
17:51:50 <garyo-home> Thanks, Greg. And hi, Ariane Paola if you're online!
17:52:12 <bdbaddog> back now.. dang mac...
17:52:25 <garyo-home> np, we just assigned all the bugs to you. :-)
17:52:35 <bdbaddog> I saw.. ;)
17:52:58 <bdbaddog> re 804. anyone able to look at the taskmaster traces?
17:53:09 <sk> not me
17:53:32 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 804: why? it has nothing to do with Taskmaster.
17:53:44 <garyo-home> 804, we decided to revisit next time because we didn't get consensus yet
17:53:53 <garyo-home> ... and we're trying to go fast tonight
17:53:57 <bdbaddog> o.k
17:53:11 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 824: priority and milestone
17:53:38 <sk> 824: for research?
17:54:11 <garyo-home> 824: research Ariane Paola
17:54:17 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> OK, done
17:54:22 <sk> 824 done
17:54:26 <sk> 843: consensus future +qt
17:54:42 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> priority?
17:54:50 <sk> p3
17:54:51 <garyo-home> 843: Bill, if you have a builder at least put it on the wiki.
17:55:04 <bdbaddog> it's in previous clients code.. I'll ask if it's ok..
17:55:11 <garyo-home> I think someday we'll scrape all the builders off the wiki into a contrib folder or something.
17:55:25 <garyo-home> (or separate repo)
17:55:22 <sk> contrib folder ++
17:55:46 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> priority?
17:55:54 <bdbaddog> p3 is fine
17:55:55 <garyo-home> p3?
17:55:59 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
17:56:09 <sk> 843: future p3 +qt
17:56:24 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> We're done with the backlog!
17:56:33 <garyo-home> Greg: go us!
17:56:44 * sk applauds wildly
17:57:03 * sk grins sheepishly at the other people on the shuttle
17:57:07 * garyo-home smiles
17:56:24 <sk> 2384: consensus 2.x p2 [GregNoel](GregNoel)
17:56:29 <garyo-home> 2384: 2.x p2 greg
17:56:35 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
17:57:24 <sk> 2384: done
17:57:26 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2400?
17:57:42 <sk> 2400: doc
17:57:44 <garyo-home> anytime, p3, doc, who?
17:57:52 <sk> bdbaddog, can you? you're picking up a few others of those
17:57:54 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> +Easy
17:57:58 <garyo-home> sure
17:58:17 <sk> 2400: anytime, p3, doc, bdbaddog +Easy
17:58:20 <bdbaddog> sure. Got little work this week so I have time.
17:58:25 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
17:58:26 <garyo-home> thanks!
17:58:43 <sk> ta
17:58:51 <garyo-home> ?
17:59:09 <sk> (archaic short form for "thanks")
17:59:26 <garyo-home> learn something new every day.
17:59:43 <Jason_at_intel> ( thought it was thanks again)
17:59:58 <garyo-home> jason: that makes sense
17:59:31 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2401, consensus
17:59:32 <sk> 2401: anytime p2 [GregNoel](GregNoel)
17:59:33 <garyo-home> 2401 anytime/p2/greg
17:59:36 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
17:59:37 <sk> done
18:00:05 <garyo-home> 2402 anytime/p4/greg
18:00:08 <sk> 2402: anytime p4 greg
18:00:13 <bdbaddog> +1
18:00:16 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
18:00:25 <sk> done
18:00:29 <garyo-home> 2403 anytime/p3/bill
18:00:35 <sk> 2403: anytime p3 bdbaddog
18:00:36 <sk> done
18:00:41 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
18:00:38 <garyo-home> sk: how much time do you have left?
18:00:58 <sk> ~15, let's defer the rest
18:01:05 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> works
18:01:11 <garyo-home> (actually 2405 is consensus)
18:01:39 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2405: done
18:01:14 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 1.3 then?
18:01:16 <sk> okay, re: 1.3
18:01:38 <sk> hold up is I don't have time to do a proper job on the integration
18:01:48 <bdbaddog> I've got time.
18:01:59 <sk> there's some design work that needs doing
18:02:00 <garyo-home> the vs_revamp stuff integration?
18:02:11 <sk> yes vs_revamp
18:02:27 <sk> Jason contributed the parts code and some really valuable insight into 64-bit / 32-bit support
18:02:38 <garyo-home> I'm trying to use vs_revamp at work w/o success yet, but I need to rip out all our old hacks before I know what's wrong
18:02:41 <sk> unfortunately, it's lain fallow long enough that I've forgotten the particulars
18:02:43 <Jason_at_intel> oh forgot to send you the updates
18:02:56 <sk> about what needs updating
18:03:01 <bdbaddog> Jason.. are the latest in parts/trunk?
18:03:08 <Jason_at_intel> Yes
18:03:12 <garyo-home> From what I could see Jason's work has definite value
18:03:15 <sk> i remember there are some parts of Jason's parts stuff that didn't feel completely "SConsy" to me
18:03:22 <sk> but again don't remember the particulars
18:03:27 <garyo-home> but needs some merging (yes SK)
18:03:27 <sk> agreed re: value
18:03:41 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Let's focus on 1.3, please
18:03:48 <Jason_at_intel> I plan to revamp it again.. I have a general toolsetup object.. the hope it to make it easy to add any tool and new version of it
18:03:50 <sk> i tried to look for ~1 hour last night
18:03:57 <sk> through email and the current code state
18:03:49 <garyo-home> Steven, can you provide Bill some direction?
18:04:13 <sk> yeah, was trying to get to that last night
18:04:28 <sk> the problem is it's taking me too long to recreate what needs to be done
18:04:36 <sk> and i didn't make any good notes when i had it in mind... :-(
18:04:36 <Jason_at_intel> ...> i remember there are some parts of Jason's parts stuff that didn't feel completely "SConsy" to me
18:04:45 <Jason_at_intel> so I wanted to talk to you some time about that :-)
18:04:57 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Not now, please.
18:05:15 <garyo-home> I think the tool stuff is cool but needs to be separated out for this release
18:05:17 <bdbaddog> Greg: this is 1.3 related, vs_revamps supposed to go into 1.3
18:05:33 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> But parts is not
18:05:36 <sk> unless we decide to release 1.3 as is without vs_revamp
18:05:40 <garyo-home> my point xactly
18:05:46 <sk> [GregNoel](GregNoel): the issue is that to do the 1.3 API right
18:06:02 <sk> we need to incorporate some aspects of the architectural work that Jason's done on parts
18:06:09 <sk> specifically the 32-bit / 64-bit cross-compilation
18:06:30 <sk> my main concern is that if we don't at least have a road map to the cross-compilation API
18:06:04 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I see. But let's not get sidetracked to all of Parts.
18:06:05 <Jason_at_intel> I think teh current vs_revamp is a big improvement over the existing stuff
18:06:30 <garyo-home> that would scratch my itch at work big time.
18:06:32 <Jason_at_intel> however it 100% script .. the latest is missing the default logic
18:06:39 <sk> we could release something in 1.3 that boxes us into a corner
18:07:03 <sk> i'm okay with declaring actual 32-bit/64-bit cross-compilation out of scope to get 1.3 out the door
18:07:12 <sk> but i'm afraid if we don't know where we're going
18:07:23 <sk> 1.3 will be a half-assed API that we'll have to support forever
18:07:08 <bdbaddog> Cross-compilation's not really mainstream is it?
18:07:10 <Jason_at_intel> have you look at the design notes on teh wiki for scons?
18:07:25 <Jason_at_intel> :-) wiki for Parts..
18:07:32 <garyo-home> sk: agreed. Which is more important: vs_revamp, or 1.3 schedule? Either do it right and delay, or leave it out.
18:07:49 <sk> garyo-home: nicely put
18:07:58 <bdbaddog> is vs_revamp(today) worse than trunk now?
18:08:01 * sk wishes he were as concise as the rest of the world...
18:08:14 <sk> it apparently doesn't even work for gary
18:08:18 <Jason_at_intel> I think vs_revamp is better than current
18:08:23 <sk> modulo local mods to his configuration
18:08:43 <garyo-home> true, but I have lots of add-on junk to find SDKs and stuff, probably conflicting w/ vs_revamp doing it correctly.
18:09:04 <bdbaddog> Gary do you have time to resolve the issues in your environment with vs_revamp in the near term?
18:09:07 <garyo-home> It does find the right compiler/linker, I just get link errors.
18:09:12 <garyo-home> I will try hard to do it this wk.
18:09:28 <garyo-home> Or early next.
18:10:10 <garyo-home> I do have a problem though that I have some old branches that still need to build, will need an old scons version to use them.
18:10:04 <bdbaddog> Can you extract your logic so we can resolve the issue without your whole build?
18:10:31 <garyo-home> bdbaddog: I wish I could, it's all tangled up.
18:10:35 <bdbaddog> o.k.
18:10:42 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> What I'm seeing is no freeze for 1.3 by this weekend, so I won't be able to use my upcoming gap for 1.3 to 2.0. I've got other things to work on (the console view comes to mind) so the time won't be wasted.
18:09:52 <sk> bill and jason:
18:10:02 <sk> i have no meetings tomorrow during the day
18:10:06 <sk> actually, only one at 1:00
18:10:24 <sk> can we each set up times to meet via irc?
18:10:30 <bdbaddog> I only have a 3:45 meeting.
18:10:43 <Jason_at_intel> 8:00 central for me.. any time after that
18:10:56 <sk> if so, I'll block out schedule time to meet for some real-time pair-investigation of what to do w/vs_revamp
18:11:08 <bdbaddog> cool. - lunch of course.
18:11:13 <Jason_at_intel> cool
18:11:28 <garyo-home> wait, when?
18:11:29 <Jason_at_intel> I be online irc after meeting then.. or wait for e-mail from you
18:11:38 <sk> okay
18:11:43 <sk> bill, you want to come to google for ftf?
18:11:54 <bdbaddog> SK; sure.
18:12:03 <sk> whatever's easiest
18:12:10 <bdbaddog> SK: I'll be in MV tomorrow so that's easy for me.
18:12:24 <garyo-home> Greg: I think you're right, it's too bad though.
18:12:30 <garyo-home> Your time is valuable.
18:12:50 <sk> big agreement with that
18:13:07 <Jason_at_intel> I second that
18:13:16 <bdbaddog> Being the eternal optimist, if we can resolve what needs doing tomorrow, it could be done by friday.
18:13:17 <garyo-home> Greg: could you do the 1.3->2.0 stuff on a branch??
18:13:43 * sk likes the branch idea, if that works
18:13:49 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> No. It's massive changes; it needs to be done on the trunk. No merges after it's done.
18:14:14 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Probably over 30% of the code lines will be touched.
18:14:28 <garyo-home> Greg: I understand, just did that on my work codebase.
18:14:59 <garyo-home> ok, let's see where we can get soon, but Greg I wouldn't hold my breath for it.
18:13:42 <garyo-home> bdbaddog: I will see if I can get any insight into my issues ASAP.
18:13:32 <sk> jason, can you irc 11:00 PDT / 13:00 CDT ?
18:13:48 <Jason_at_intel> yes
18:15:05 <sk> okay, i'll try to prep for tomorrow
18:15:14 <garyo-home> ditto
18:15:19 <sk> bill, bring your laptop, you can irc in from the guest wifi
18:15:34 <sk> and we can break at some appropriate time to grab lunch
18:15:55 <garyo-home> I'll try to hang out on irc tomorrow too
18:16:00 <bdbaddog> SK: will do
18:16:05 <bdbaddog> SK: 11am
18:16:09 <sk> yes
18:16:05 <sk> shuttle stop in ~1 minute
18:16:23 <sk> excellent work folks, many thanks
18:16:26 <Jason_at_intel> great see you tomorrow then
18:16:32 <sk> tomorrow
18:16:39 <sk> Jason_at_intel: you're CDT?
18:16:59 <Jason_at_intel> yes.. IL
18:17:14 <Jason_at_intel> else i would stop by google
18:17:28 <garyo-home> yeah, me too except wrong coast :-)
18:16:34 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Two weeks for next meeting?
18:16:40 <garyo-home> good for me
18:16:52 <sk> two weeks next meeting
18:17:12 <sk> pretty amazing to have all the backlog cleared...
18:17:28 <bdbaddog> sk: Agreed Good work by All
18:17:48 <garyo-home> ok, see you on irc tmw
18:17:54 * [GregNoel](GregNoel) brb, somebody at door
18:18:01 <sk> [GregNoel](GregNoel): many, many thanks for being the main driver for organizing and keeping all of this categorization on task over the last year
18:18:22 <sk> i have little doubt that we wouldn't have gotten this taken care of without you!
18:18:37 <garyo-home> sk: well said.
18:19:39 <bdbaddog> sk: Cheers for Greg!
18:20:17 <Jason_at_intel> agreed
18:21:24 * [GregNoel](GregNoel) has been marked as being away
18:26:55 <garyo-home> ok, bye 4 now
18:27:04 * garyo-home has quit ("[ChatZilla](ChatZilla) 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]")
18:27:17 * Jason_at_intel has quit ("[ChatZilla](ChatZilla) 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910]")
18:29:13 <bdbaddog> bye
18:29:18 * bdbaddog has quit ("[ChatZilla](ChatZilla) 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042315]")
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