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IrcLog2009 04 29
17:10:22 * bdbaddog (n=[firstname.lastname@example.org](mailto:email@example.com)) has joined #scons 17:18:36 * Jason_at_intel (n=[firstname.lastname@example.org](mailto:email@example.com)) has joined #scons 17:27:26 <bdbaddog> Hi Jason 17:27:43 * garyo-home (n=[firstname.lastname@example.org](mailto:email@example.com)) has joined #scons 17:27:59 * [GregNoel](GregNoel) is no longer marked as being away 17:31:33 <garyo-home> hi 17:32:00 <Jason_at_intel> hi 17:32:09 <Jason_at_intel> sorry was away from the computer 17:32:23 * stevenknight (n=[firstname.lastname@example.org](mailto:email@example.com)) has joined #scons 17:32:30 <garyo-home> big group here tonight, looks like! 17:32:36 * stevenknight is now known as sk 17:32:48 <sk> hey all 17:32:55 <Jason_at_intel> hi 17:33:02 <sk> hey Jason_at_inetl 17:33:54 <garyo-home> Hi Steven 17:34:25 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Hi, guys... 17:34:30 <garyo-home> Hi, Greg. 17:34:45 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Steven has only ~45 minutes on the shuttle, but can connect again after he gets home (a break of ~15 minutes, he says). That's not enough time to do all the issues and then discuss the 1.3 plans. (I'd like to see what's happening, as I have a gap coming up next week when I could spent full time on the changes between 1.3 and 2.0.) 17:34:45 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I propose that we go as far as we can with the issues, but break when Steven is maybe 15 minutes from his stop and discuss 1.3 plans so that they won't get dropped. 17:34:45 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Then we can decide if we want to reconvene when he gets home or leave the remaining issues for next time. 17:34:45 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Comments? 17:35:14 <garyo-home> ok 17:35:47 <sk> worksforme 17:36:14 <garyo-home> ok, shall we dive in? 17:36:16 <garyo-home> 148? 17:36:39 <sk> consensus 1.3+doc, p3, bill? 17:36:52 <garyo-home> sure. Bill, I like your text in the bug report. 17:36:54 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done; glad it's not me 17:38:07 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 633 17:38:23 <sk> 633: consensus 2.x p3 Lukas Erlingen 17:38:27 <garyo-home> 633 2.x p3 lukas 17:38:32 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done 17:38:36 <sk> 790: 17:38:50 <garyo-home> bill already emailed OP, great! 17:38:57 <sk> go bill! 17:39:02 <sk> for classification? 17:39:11 <sk> how about future, p3, +MinGW keyword? 17:39:27 <garyo-home> works4me 17:39:29 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I'll agree 17:39:48 <sk> done 17:39:50 <sk> 797: 17:39:51 <garyo-home> 797, 3.x p3 draft choice 17:40:03 <sk> done 17:40:12 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done 17:40:30 <sk> (browser lag...) 17:40:49 <sk> (someone carry on) 17:40:50 <garyo-home> 798: hard to warn in this case. 17:41:03 <garyo-home> I think doc's the best we can do. 17:41:24 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> if the docs already say it's a global namespace, close as invalid 17:41:39 <garyo-home> I don't think the doc is that clear on it. 17:42:10 <sk> agree w/documenting this explicit case 17:42:17 <sk> [GregNoel](GregNoel) is technically correct 17:42:30 <sk> but not everyone immediately grasps that implication of "global namespace" 17:42:35 <sk> and I'm in favor of trying to be helpful 17:42:29 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> then 2.1 p2 Bill? 17:42:49 <garyo-home> Bill, if you want help w/ verbiage I can pitch in 17:43:02 <sk> 2.1 p2 bill, if it's ok w/him 17:43:50 <garyo-home> (bill?) 17:43:59 <sk> bdbaddog: ping 17:44:08 <Jason_at_intel> sk: global is as in global or global in environment 17:44:46 <garyo-home> global as in global. 17:45:02 <sk> Export("env") exports to a global namespace 17:44:59 <Jason_at_intel> thanks 17:45:01 <garyo-home> Let's just assign it to him & move on, he volunteered in the ssheet. 17:45:10 <sk> done 17:45:10 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done 17:45:41 <garyo-home> 804 seems to have mutated far from what I originally reported. 17:46:22 <sk> 804: research, not me 17:46:24 <garyo-home> I don't know what a [LazyAction](LazyAction) is, but I can guess it gets in the way of this use case. 17:46:49 <garyo-home> 3.x p4 draft pick?? Unless Bill is interested? 17:47:07 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I'm not seeing any consensus; bypass? 17:47:08 <sk> garyo-home: there's a special hack in Action.py that looks for an action like '$SINGLE_VARIABLE_NAME' 17:47:38 <garyo-home> that explains why all the workarounds work, then. 17:47:39 <sk> if it finds that, it instantiates a special class that delays instantiation of the actual Action object until it's used 17:48:33 <garyo-home> I see, it's so the var can be lazy-evaled as late as possible. 17:48:17 <sk> what i'd really like is for us to revisit the underlying problem this was introduced to solve way back when because we have a lot more functionality now and could probably get rid of the hack by providing a transition to a less hacky solution 17:48:38 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> No time here; bypass until next time? 17:48:44 <garyo-home> ok w/ me 17:49:02 <sk> okay, defer 17:49:06 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done 17:49:08 <sk> 806 17:49:11 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 806 17:49:26 <sk> consensus 2.x p4, who? 17:49:38 <garyo-home> I"ll contact OP 17:49:47 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done 17:49:53 <sk> 810: 17:50:05 <sk> consensus future p2 17:50:12 <garyo-home> good 17:50:23 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Gary, yes, would need both revamped downstream dependencies and something like [DynamicSourceGenerator](DynamicSourceGenerator). 17:50:27 <sk> 813: consensus 2.x p3 Bill +dmd 17:50:39 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done 17:50:48 <sk> 816: consensus 2.x p3 +Easy 17:50:56 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done 17:51:06 <sk> 824: research Ariane 17:51:11 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> A note: Ariane Paola is her first name 17:51:25 <sk> (might be a stretch, but we'll kick it back if it seems outside her intended domain) 17:51:29 <sk> arianepaola, yt? 17:51:50 <garyo-home> Thanks, Greg. And hi, Ariane Paola if you're online! 17:52:12 <bdbaddog> back now.. dang mac... 17:52:25 <garyo-home> np, we just assigned all the bugs to you. :-) 17:52:35 <bdbaddog> I saw.. ;) 17:52:58 <bdbaddog> re 804. anyone able to look at the taskmaster traces? 17:53:09 <sk> not me 17:53:32 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 804: why? it has nothing to do with Taskmaster. 17:53:44 <garyo-home> 804, we decided to revisit next time because we didn't get consensus yet 17:53:53 <garyo-home> ... and we're trying to go fast tonight 17:53:57 <bdbaddog> o.k 17:53:11 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 824: priority and milestone 17:53:38 <sk> 824: for research? 17:54:11 <garyo-home> 824: research Ariane Paola 17:54:17 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> OK, done 17:54:22 <sk> 824 done 17:54:26 <sk> 843: consensus future +qt 17:54:42 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> priority? 17:54:50 <sk> p3 17:54:51 <garyo-home> 843: Bill, if you have a builder at least put it on the wiki. 17:55:04 <bdbaddog> it's in previous clients code.. I'll ask if it's ok.. 17:55:11 <garyo-home> I think someday we'll scrape all the builders off the wiki into a contrib folder or something. 17:55:25 <garyo-home> (or separate repo) 17:55:22 <sk> contrib folder ++ 17:55:46 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> priority? 17:55:54 <bdbaddog> p3 is fine 17:55:55 <garyo-home> p3? 17:55:59 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done 17:56:09 <sk> 843: future p3 +qt 17:56:24 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> We're done with the backlog! 17:56:33 <garyo-home> Greg: go us! 17:56:44 * sk applauds wildly 17:57:03 * sk grins sheepishly at the other people on the shuttle 17:57:07 * garyo-home smiles 17:56:24 <sk> 2384: consensus 2.x p2 [GregNoel](GregNoel) 17:56:29 <garyo-home> 2384: 2.x p2 greg 17:56:35 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done 17:57:24 <sk> 2384: done 17:57:26 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2400? 17:57:42 <sk> 2400: doc 17:57:44 <garyo-home> anytime, p3, doc, who? 17:57:52 <sk> bdbaddog, can you? you're picking up a few others of those 17:57:54 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> +Easy 17:57:58 <garyo-home> sure 17:58:17 <sk> 2400: anytime, p3, doc, bdbaddog +Easy 17:58:20 <bdbaddog> sure. Got little work this week so I have time. 17:58:25 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done 17:58:26 <garyo-home> thanks! 17:58:43 <sk> ta 17:58:51 <garyo-home> ? 17:59:09 <sk> (archaic short form for "thanks") 17:59:26 <garyo-home> learn something new every day. 17:59:43 <Jason_at_intel> ( thought it was thanks again) 17:59:58 <garyo-home> jason: that makes sense 17:59:31 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2401, consensus 17:59:32 <sk> 2401: anytime p2 [GregNoel](GregNoel) 17:59:33 <garyo-home> 2401 anytime/p2/greg 17:59:36 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done 17:59:37 <sk> done 18:00:05 <garyo-home> 2402 anytime/p4/greg 18:00:08 <sk> 2402: anytime p4 greg 18:00:13 <bdbaddog> +1 18:00:16 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done 18:00:25 <sk> done 18:00:29 <garyo-home> 2403 anytime/p3/bill 18:00:35 <sk> 2403: anytime p3 bdbaddog 18:00:36 <sk> done 18:00:41 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done 18:00:38 <garyo-home> sk: how much time do you have left? 18:00:58 <sk> ~15, let's defer the rest 18:01:05 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> works 18:01:11 <garyo-home> (actually 2405 is consensus) 18:01:39 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2405: done 18:01:14 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 1.3 then? 18:01:16 <sk> okay, re: 1.3 18:01:38 <sk> hold up is I don't have time to do a proper job on the integration 18:01:48 <bdbaddog> I've got time. 18:01:59 <sk> there's some design work that needs doing 18:02:00 <garyo-home> the vs_revamp stuff integration? 18:02:11 <sk> yes vs_revamp 18:02:27 <sk> Jason contributed the parts code and some really valuable insight into 64-bit / 32-bit support 18:02:38 <garyo-home> I'm trying to use vs_revamp at work w/o success yet, but I need to rip out all our old hacks before I know what's wrong 18:02:41 <sk> unfortunately, it's lain fallow long enough that I've forgotten the particulars 18:02:43 <Jason_at_intel> oh forgot to send you the updates 18:02:56 <sk> about what needs updating 18:03:01 <bdbaddog> Jason.. are the latest in parts/trunk? 18:03:08 <Jason_at_intel> Yes 18:03:12 <garyo-home> From what I could see Jason's work has definite value 18:03:15 <sk> i remember there are some parts of Jason's parts stuff that didn't feel completely "SConsy" to me 18:03:22 <sk> but again don't remember the particulars 18:03:27 <garyo-home> but needs some merging (yes SK) 18:03:27 <sk> agreed re: value 18:03:41 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Let's focus on 1.3, please 18:03:48 <Jason_at_intel> I plan to revamp it again.. I have a general toolsetup object.. the hope it to make it easy to add any tool and new version of it 18:03:50 <sk> i tried to look for ~1 hour last night 18:03:57 <sk> through email and the current code state 18:03:49 <garyo-home> Steven, can you provide Bill some direction? 18:04:13 <sk> yeah, was trying to get to that last night 18:04:28 <sk> the problem is it's taking me too long to recreate what needs to be done 18:04:36 <sk> and i didn't make any good notes when i had it in mind... :-( 18:04:36 <Jason_at_intel> ...> i remember there are some parts of Jason's parts stuff that didn't feel completely "SConsy" to me 18:04:45 <Jason_at_intel> so I wanted to talk to you some time about that :-) 18:04:57 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Not now, please. 18:05:15 <garyo-home> I think the tool stuff is cool but needs to be separated out for this release 18:05:17 <bdbaddog> Greg: this is 1.3 related, vs_revamps supposed to go into 1.3 18:05:33 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> But parts is not 18:05:36 <sk> unless we decide to release 1.3 as is without vs_revamp 18:05:40 <garyo-home> my point xactly 18:05:46 <sk> [GregNoel](GregNoel): the issue is that to do the 1.3 API right 18:06:02 <sk> we need to incorporate some aspects of the architectural work that Jason's done on parts 18:06:09 <sk> specifically the 32-bit / 64-bit cross-compilation 18:06:30 <sk> my main concern is that if we don't at least have a road map to the cross-compilation API 18:06:04 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I see. But let's not get sidetracked to all of Parts. 18:06:05 <Jason_at_intel> I think teh current vs_revamp is a big improvement over the existing stuff 18:06:30 <garyo-home> that would scratch my itch at work big time. 18:06:32 <Jason_at_intel> however it 100% script .. the latest is missing the default logic 18:06:39 <sk> we could release something in 1.3 that boxes us into a corner 18:07:03 <sk> i'm okay with declaring actual 32-bit/64-bit cross-compilation out of scope to get 1.3 out the door 18:07:12 <sk> but i'm afraid if we don't know where we're going 18:07:23 <sk> 1.3 will be a half-assed API that we'll have to support forever 18:07:08 <bdbaddog> Cross-compilation's not really mainstream is it? 18:07:10 <Jason_at_intel> have you look at the design notes on teh wiki for scons? 18:07:25 <Jason_at_intel> :-) wiki for Parts.. 18:07:32 <garyo-home> sk: agreed. Which is more important: vs_revamp, or 1.3 schedule? Either do it right and delay, or leave it out. 18:07:49 <sk> garyo-home: nicely put 18:07:58 <bdbaddog> is vs_revamp(today) worse than trunk now? 18:08:01 * sk wishes he were as concise as the rest of the world... 18:08:14 <sk> it apparently doesn't even work for gary 18:08:18 <Jason_at_intel> I think vs_revamp is better than current 18:08:23 <sk> modulo local mods to his configuration 18:08:43 <garyo-home> true, but I have lots of add-on junk to find SDKs and stuff, probably conflicting w/ vs_revamp doing it correctly. 18:09:04 <bdbaddog> Gary do you have time to resolve the issues in your environment with vs_revamp in the near term? 18:09:07 <garyo-home> It does find the right compiler/linker, I just get link errors. 18:09:12 <garyo-home> I will try hard to do it this wk. 18:09:28 <garyo-home> Or early next. 18:10:10 <garyo-home> I do have a problem though that I have some old branches that still need to build, will need an old scons version to use them. 18:10:04 <bdbaddog> Can you extract your logic so we can resolve the issue without your whole build? 18:10:31 <garyo-home> bdbaddog: I wish I could, it's all tangled up. 18:10:35 <bdbaddog> o.k. 18:10:42 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> What I'm seeing is no freeze for 1.3 by this weekend, so I won't be able to use my upcoming gap for 1.3 to 2.0. I've got other things to work on (the console view comes to mind) so the time won't be wasted. 18:09:52 <sk> bill and jason: 18:10:02 <sk> i have no meetings tomorrow during the day 18:10:06 <sk> actually, only one at 1:00 18:10:24 <sk> can we each set up times to meet via irc? 18:10:30 <bdbaddog> I only have a 3:45 meeting. 18:10:43 <Jason_at_intel> 8:00 central for me.. any time after that 18:10:56 <sk> if so, I'll block out schedule time to meet for some real-time pair-investigation of what to do w/vs_revamp 18:11:08 <bdbaddog> cool. - lunch of course. 18:11:13 <Jason_at_intel> cool 18:11:28 <garyo-home> wait, when? 18:11:29 <Jason_at_intel> I be online irc after meeting then.. or wait for e-mail from you 18:11:38 <sk> okay 18:11:43 <sk> bill, you want to come to google for ftf? 18:11:54 <bdbaddog> SK; sure. 18:12:03 <sk> whatever's easiest 18:12:10 <bdbaddog> SK: I'll be in MV tomorrow so that's easy for me. 18:12:24 <garyo-home> Greg: I think you're right, it's too bad though. 18:12:30 <garyo-home> Your time is valuable. 18:12:50 <sk> big agreement with that 18:13:07 <Jason_at_intel> I second that 18:13:16 <bdbaddog> Being the eternal optimist, if we can resolve what needs doing tomorrow, it could be done by friday. 18:13:17 <garyo-home> Greg: could you do the 1.3->2.0 stuff on a branch?? 18:13:43 * sk likes the branch idea, if that works 18:13:49 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> No. It's massive changes; it needs to be done on the trunk. No merges after it's done. 18:14:14 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Probably over 30% of the code lines will be touched. 18:14:28 <garyo-home> Greg: I understand, just did that on my work codebase. 18:14:59 <garyo-home> ok, let's see where we can get soon, but Greg I wouldn't hold my breath for it. 18:13:42 <garyo-home> bdbaddog: I will see if I can get any insight into my issues ASAP. 18:13:32 <sk> jason, can you irc 11:00 PDT / 13:00 CDT ? 18:13:48 <Jason_at_intel> yes 18:15:05 <sk> okay, i'll try to prep for tomorrow 18:15:14 <garyo-home> ditto 18:15:19 <sk> bill, bring your laptop, you can irc in from the guest wifi 18:15:34 <sk> and we can break at some appropriate time to grab lunch 18:15:55 <garyo-home> I'll try to hang out on irc tomorrow too 18:16:00 <bdbaddog> SK: will do 18:16:05 <bdbaddog> SK: 11am 18:16:09 <sk> yes 18:16:05 <sk> shuttle stop in ~1 minute 18:16:23 <sk> excellent work folks, many thanks 18:16:26 <Jason_at_intel> great see you tomorrow then 18:16:32 <sk> tomorrow 18:16:39 <sk> Jason_at_intel: you're CDT? 18:16:59 <Jason_at_intel> yes.. IL 18:17:14 <Jason_at_intel> else i would stop by google 18:17:28 <garyo-home> yeah, me too except wrong coast :-) 18:16:34 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Two weeks for next meeting? 18:16:40 <garyo-home> good for me 18:16:52 <sk> two weeks next meeting 18:17:12 <sk> pretty amazing to have all the backlog cleared... 18:17:28 <bdbaddog> sk: Agreed Good work by All 18:17:48 <garyo-home> ok, see you on irc tmw 18:17:54 * [GregNoel](GregNoel) brb, somebody at door 18:18:01 <sk> [GregNoel](GregNoel): many, many thanks for being the main driver for organizing and keeping all of this categorization on task over the last year 18:18:22 <sk> i have little doubt that we wouldn't have gotten this taken care of without you! 18:18:37 <garyo-home> sk: well said. 18:19:39 <bdbaddog> sk: Cheers for Greg! 18:20:17 <Jason_at_intel> agreed 18:21:24 * [GregNoel](GregNoel) has been marked as being away 18:26:55 <garyo-home> ok, bye 4 now 18:27:04 * garyo-home has quit ("[ChatZilla](ChatZilla) 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]") 18:27:17 * Jason_at_intel has quit ("[ChatZilla](ChatZilla) 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910]") 18:29:13 <bdbaddog> bye 18:29:18 * bdbaddog has quit ("[ChatZilla](ChatZilla) 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042315]") 18:42:45 * sk has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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