IrcLog2008 06 09

16:48:28  *      garyo-home (n=[chatzill@209-6-158-38.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com](mailto:chatzill@209-6-158-38.c3-0.smr-ubr3.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com)) has joined #scons 
16:49:09  <garyo-home>   Hi, Greg. 
16:59:36  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Hi.  Steven said he would be late; anyone else here for the bug party?  Still a minute to go. 
17:00:56  <garyo-home>   hmm, maybe it's just us? 
17:01:05  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Yup. 
17:01:13  <garyo-home>   Need a bit more of a quorum than that I think. 
17:01:24  <garyo-home>   Anyway I'm looking at some of the 2007q2 issues... 
17:01:20  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Do you want to go back and work some issues while we wait? 
17:01:39  <garyo-home>   shall we just wait a few minutes? 
17:01:45  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     yup. 
17:31:12  *      stevenknight (n=[stevenkn@c-69-181-234-155.hsd1.ca.comcast.net](mailto:stevenkn@c-69-181-234-155.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)) has joined #scons 
17:31:23  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Hi, Steven 
17:31:26  <stevenknight> hey 
17:31:27  <garyo-home>   Hi Steven! 
17:31:44  <stevenknight> which spreadsheet and # are we on? 
17:32:00  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Waiting for you; first one of current issues. 
17:32:09  <garyo-home>   Hi Steven -- it's just Greg & me so we were waiting for you. 
17:32:55  <stevenknight> okay 
17:33:18  <garyo-home>   Shall we just start w/ the new ones, then? 
17:33:25  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2087 
17:33:39  <stevenknight> 1.x, no one's weighed in on priority so... p3? 
17:33:52  <garyo-home>   ok w/ me 
17:33:55  <stevenknight> question is who 
17:34:22  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     As I indicated, I don't think Mark has experience with Python. 
17:34:24  <stevenknight> ah, just saw the note re: Flacy 
17:34:38  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     He's probably good with advice, but not programming. 
17:34:37  <garyo-home>   So that means Rob I guess? 
17:34:45  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Yes, Rob. 
17:34:50  <stevenknight> sure 
17:34:59  <stevenknight> 1.x, p3, rob ... done 
17:35:04  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     ok, done, next 
17:35:32  <garyo-home>   2088: easy, but needs testing.  Who has Java? 
17:35:54  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Not me 
17:35:49  <stevenknight> i'm creating a VM that anyone can run with a reasonable subset of necessary tools 
17:35:53  <stevenknight> including Java 1.5 and 1.6 
17:36:04  <garyo-home>   ah, good.  Linux + Java? 
17:36:10  <stevenknight> yeah, ubuntu 
17:36:14  <garyo-home>   excellent 
17:36:28  <stevenknight> starting with JEOS == Just Enough Operating System 
17:36:30  <garyo-home>   I just made an ubuntu vm for doing scons doc w/ all the doc tools 
17:36:47  <stevenknight> did you start with workstation? 
17:37:00  <garyo-home>   I got a prebuilt 8.04 from somewhere. 
17:37:12  <stevenknight> ah, i bet i know which one 
17:37:14  <garyo-home>   it's kind of bloated. 
17:37:13  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     And I obviously need to get a VM to run Mac Classic 
17:37:32  <garyo-home>   [GregNoel](GregNoel): :-) :-) 
17:37:56  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     garyo-home, well, I still want to play Civ II :-( 
17:38:00  <garyo-home>   anyway, so 2088 can be done easily & tested on this vm? 
17:38:11  <stevenknight> Ken volunteered off-line to make bandwidth available for people to download the VM 
17:38:21  <garyo-home>   Greg: I just fired up my Amiga 1000 for my 9-year-old, he loves it 
17:38:42  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Hmmm, I wonder if my Amigas still work... 
17:38:30  <stevenknight> yes, VM should be good for testing 
17:38:50  <garyo-home>   Stevenknight: I'll d/l & try it.  Ken should put the pointer on the dev list. 
17:39:14  <stevenknight> it's not there yet, but I'll get with him and get it set up 
17:39:33  <garyo-home>   OK.  I don't want to be the "java guy" though, I know nothing about it. 
17:39:33  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     so 2088, gary, when? 
17:39:35  <stevenknight> after 0.98.5 is out (sourceforge *finally* got the release system working again this afternoon) 
17:39:42  <stevenknight> 2088:  gary, 1.x, p4 
17:39:43  <garyo-home>   1.x p3 
17:39:47  <stevenknight> p3 
17:39:51  <stevenknight> i meant to say... :-) 
17:39:56  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     done 
17:40:23  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2089 
17:40:47  <stevenknight> 2089:  do we have a NEEDSMOREINFO for kicking something back to the filing user? 
17:41:08  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     no, "research" is best, with a comment 
17:41:25  <garyo-home>   ok w/ me 
17:41:39  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I'll kick it back and we'll re-triage it next time? 
17:41:29  <stevenknight> okay, i'd say "research" and Russel 
17:41:57  <stevenknight> or whenever he updates with more info, i really want to understand what he expected 
17:42:37  <stevenknight> i think he expected it to select the compiler, but i'm not sure 
17:42:45  <stevenknight> if so, then it's a feature request 
17:42:36  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     done 
17:42:41  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2090 
17:42:53  <garyo-home>   ok, 2090?  I'm staying out of this one. 
17:43:31  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Uh, I'm not sure what to say 
17:43:35  <stevenknight> 2090:  i think a doc issue re: LANG for 1.0, p3 
17:43:47  <garyo-home>   ok w/ me 
17:43:50  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK 
17:43:53  <stevenknight> and a new issue to track adding a warning 
17:44:02  <stevenknight> probably 1.x, p2 (?) 
17:44:15  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Where should the note be, under env.Java()? 
17:44:35  <garyo-home>   that's where I'd look. 
17:44:47  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I'm not sure we need a warning 
17:45:18  <garyo-home>   not a big deal for me, doc is ok 
17:45:27  <stevenknight> okay, makes life simpler all around 
17:45:39  <stevenknight> then 1.0, p3, doc 
17:45:47  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     done 
17:45:57  <garyo-home>   2091: add new optional arg? 
17:46:15  <garyo-home>   1.x p3?  I'll do it. 
17:46:26  <stevenknight> works for me 
17:46:36  <stevenknight> one thing just occurred to me, though... 
17:46:53  <stevenknight> isn't [AppendUnique](AppendUnique)(keep_existing=True) just a different name for Append()??? 
17:47:17  <garyo-home>   No, it would do nothing if it exists rather than deleting the old copy and appending. 
17:47:21  <garyo-home>   (right?) 
17:47:33  <stevenknight> but it doesn't delete the old copy 
17:47:40  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     the option would have to be changed; existing semantics are those of keep_existing 
17:47:49  <stevenknight> that's why Greg was saying [AppendUnique](AppendUnique)() keeps the left-most 
17:48:02  <stevenknight> at least I don't think it does... let me check... 
17:48:18  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     The option would have to be, ah, delete_existing or some such 
17:48:32  <stevenknight> replace= 
17:48:57  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     replace what?? 
17:49:07  <stevenknight> make the keyword replace= 
17:49:23  <stevenknight> oh, wait, that would imply replacing in place, not deleting the old and appending the new 
17:49:25  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     It's not a replacement, either.  The existing is deleted. 
17:49:31  <stevenknight> right 
17:50:09  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     so 2091, 1.x p2, gary? 
17:50:24  <stevenknight> yes 
17:50:33  <garyo-home>   ok, what was the resolution on the keyword name? 
17:50:34  <stevenknight> Gary, you all right with naming it "replace_existing="? 
17:50:40  <stevenknight> wrong 
17:50:47  <stevenknight> "delete_existing=" 
17:51:06  <garyo-home>   yes, that's fine w/ me.  Defaults to false. 
17:51:21  <stevenknight> right 
17:51:23  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     done 
17:51:32  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     2094, I'll buy p5 
17:51:53  <garyo-home>   sure 
17:52:01  <stevenknight> 2093:  1.0, doc, Gary 
17:52:10  <garyo-home>   yes, I assumed that. 
17:52:23  <stevenknight> 2094:  1.x, p5, Benoit 
17:52:58  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     works for me 
17:53:34  <stevenknight> okay, enough time to start the next spreadsheet? 
17:53:35  <garyo-home>   OK, on to 2007q2 I guess? 
17:53:48  <stevenknight> yes 
17:54:33  <stevenknight> 1615:  already consensus 
17:54:34  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     1643 is first 
17:54:39  <stevenknight> 1617:  already consensus 
17:54:42  <garyo-home>   we skip the DONE ones, move right to 1643? 
17:54:42  <stevenknight> ah 
17:55:01  <stevenknight> oh, hey, there's DONE strings there...  :-) 
17:55:04  <stevenknight> nice 
17:55:25  <garyo-home>   Brandon said he updated it, maybe that was a different ticket or something? 
17:55:42  <garyo-home>   I think get more info from user. 
17:55:50  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     must have been 
17:56:11  <garyo-home>   pretty weird behavior though. 
17:56:13  <stevenknight> agree:  research, Brandon 
17:56:21  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK 
17:56:59  <garyo-home>   1644 
17:57:17  <garyo-home>   Greg, I like your idea of starting all out blank, but it's impractical for now, agreed? 
17:57:32  <stevenknight> that's 1.x p2 
17:57:36  <garyo-home>   I say just fix this one case for now in 1.x p2. 
17:57:53  <stevenknight> agree with both of you re: both <ins>RPATH and public variables starting blank 
17:58:38  *      [GregNoel](GregNoel) has been overrun by rugrats; wait a sec 
17:58:41  <garyo-home>   ok, so David, 1.x, p2, in the Conservatory, with the Knife? 
17:58:47  <garyo-home>   :-) 
17:58:58  <stevenknight> yes 
17:59:59  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     ok, 1644, not completely impractical, but it should be a policy; move toward it in the future. 
18:00:12  <garyo-home>   agreed. 
18:00:24  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     yes, 1.x p2, David 
18:00:37  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     1646 
18:00:32  <garyo-home>   1646: Ludwig GSoC sounds good to me. 
18:00:42  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     done 
18:00:45  <stevenknight> ludwig gsoc++ 
18:01:23  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     1660, close 
18:01:53  <garyo-home>   yup 
18:02:20  <stevenknight> yes, close 
18:02:23  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     done 
18:02:36  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     1681 
18:02:48  <garyo-home>   1661: Steven, does VS cleanup possibly include using bat files to get env vars? 
18:02:56  <garyo-home>   Or is it two separate things? 
18:03:34  <stevenknight> includes .bat files 
18:03:59  <garyo-home>   ok, I'm a big VS user so if you do it I'll help. 
18:04:16  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     collaboration++ 
18:04:19  <stevenknight> yeah, it's turning into a case of when in Rome... 
18:04:29  <garyo-home>   stevenknight: exactly. 
18:05:15  <stevenknight> never thought that i'd have to become such a Windows geek, though... :-) 
18:05:42  <garyo-home>   sorry, happens to the best of us 
18:05:45  <stevenknight> looks like that's it for 2007q2 
18:06:14  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     1662? 
18:06:29  <garyo-home>   2.x p2? 
18:06:39  <stevenknight> ah, skipped one 
18:06:45  <stevenknight> yeah, 2.x p2 
18:06:46  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     more than one 
18:07:00  <stevenknight> oh, wow, so we did 
18:07:17  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     We??? 
18:07:29  <stevenknight> good point 
18:07:34  <stevenknight> "me" 
18:07:40  <stevenknight> must have scrolled down too far... 
18:07:58  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Sometimes it scrolls in pieces; that's bit me before 
18:08:10  <stevenknight> no, waitaminnit, someone above mentioned 1681...  :-) 
18:08:25  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     typo 
18:08:34  <stevenknight> aha 
18:08:48  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     next line says 1661, which was correct 
18:08:59  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     my eyes are too old to read that tiny type 
18:09:21  <garyo-home>   anyway, 1662 is i18n, 2.x p2? 
18:09:30  <stevenknight> okay, 1662 2.x p2 
18:09:37  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I'll buy it 
18:09:55  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     1663? 
18:09:59  <garyo-home>   then 1663, latex, 2.x unless a patch magically appears? 
18:10:01  <stevenknight> 1663:  2.x, Rob, encourage WONTFIX 
18:10:09  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     works for me 
18:10:33  <garyo-home>   1667: would be nice if we had a contrib/ folder, but not until 2.0 IMHO 
18:11:24  <stevenknight> agree re: contrib/ 
18:11:35  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     1667 is DONE; 1673? 
18:11:39  <stevenknight> make a bunch of the wiki stuff more accessible / useful 
18:11:47  <stevenknight> 1673:  1.0.x, p1 
18:11:58  <stevenknight> who? 
18:11:59  <garyo-home>   ok w me 
18:12:14  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     done 
18:12:43  <garyo-home>   1674 is trivial I think 
18:13:02  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     DONE 
18:13:22  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     1675? 
18:13:26  <garyo-home>   1675 I already replied to him 
18:13:37  <garyo-home>   just wait & see now. 
18:13:43  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Yeah, and I think you're right 
18:13:50  <stevenknight> 1675:  probably end up closing, i don't think there's a SCons problem here 
18:13:59  <garyo-home>   agree 
18:14:01  <stevenknight> but okay to wait until he replies (if he does) 
18:14:14  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Defer until next week? 
18:14:32  <garyo-home>   ok.  Or could close, and let user reopen if they still care? 
18:14:39  <garyo-home>   (Can users reopen tickets?) 
18:15:08  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I think so; Bugzilla could 
18:15:09  <stevenknight> good question, i thought they can, but don't really know 
18:15:24  <garyo-home>   anyway safer to defer for a week anyway. 
18:15:36  <garyo-home>   ... anyway.  didn't say that enough in the last line, anyway. 
18:15:55  <garyo-home>   1679 dup? 
18:15:59  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     DONE 
18:16:08  <stevenknight> done 
18:16:09  <garyo-home>   1681 consensus 
18:16:15  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     next quarter, or break here? 
18:16:32  <stevenknight> now, i think we've finished 2007q2... 
18:16:36  <garyo-home>   I should go I'm afraid. 
18:16:43  <stevenknight> me too 
18:16:49  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     OK, what about next week? 
18:16:50  <stevenknight> same time next week...? 
18:16:57  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I have a conflict... 
18:16:58  <garyo-home>   see you all next wk, I can do it then. 
18:17:05  <garyo-home>   Greg: different night better? 
18:17:15  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I'll have to leave before 18 o'clock 
18:17:23  <stevenknight> Greg:  another ntime Monday or another night? 
18:17:33  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     let me check 
18:17:39  <stevenknight> i'm okay with 17h00 - 18h00 
18:18:12  <garyo-home>   that's the usual time, right? 
18:18:14  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Tuesday is OK 
18:18:19  *      garyo-home does time math in head... 
18:18:22  <stevenknight> right 
18:18:26  <stevenknight> usual time 
18:18:35  <garyo-home>   I can do Tuesday usual time also. 
18:18:52  <stevenknight> let's go with Tuesday then 
18:18:54  <garyo-home>   Let's try to get more attendance next time.  Mailing list reminder? 
18:19:01  <stevenknight> yes 
18:19:21  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     multiple reminders 
18:19:00  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Wednesday the 18th I leave for ten days; the party after next you're on your own. 
18:19:35  <stevenknight> [GregNoel](GregNoel):  maybe I should prep next week's spreadsheets so you're available if questions come up 
18:19:41  <stevenknight> or gary 
18:20:01  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     I'm preparing a wiki page; should be ready soon 
18:20:05  <garyo-home>   I'm getting very busy at work, 3 new empl's including new CEO this wk... 
18:20:15  <garyo-home>   I'll try to keep up my end of things though. 
18:20:22  <stevenknight> wow, congratulations on the expansion 
18:20:38  <garyo-home>   thx, it's exciting but as VP/eng I'm in the thick of it. 
18:20:37  <stevenknight> did you do an exec search for CEO? 
18:20:48  <garyo-home>   yes, big exec search. 
18:21:00  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     So he's fat? {;-} 
18:21:12  <stevenknight> who handled it for you?  one of the big national recruiting firms or a local? 
18:21:16  <garyo-home>   we're up to 13 people, 3 engineers and a new database guy. 
18:21:43  <garyo-home>   Steven: a guy our investors recommended, name slips my mind atm... 
18:21:53  <stevenknight> np 
18:22:02  <stevenknight> that's really cool, glad to hear things are going well 
18:22:08  <garyo-home>   Todd Savage. 
18:22:21  <garyo-home>   He was good, but not cheap. 
18:22:42  <garyo-home>   Greg, just saw yr comment :-) 
18:22:59  <garyo-home>   & actually no, *she*'s thin. 
18:23:04  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     Wasn't that funny in retrospect 
18:23:17  <garyo-home>   that's irc for you. 
18:23:47  <garyo-home>   anyway guys, have a good week, I'll try to squash a few of my bugs this week. 
18:23:58  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     <splat!> 
18:24:02  <garyo-home>   :-) 
18:24:12  <garyo-home>   c ya 
18:24:14  <[GregNoel](GregNoel)>     bye 
18:24:20  <stevenknight> okay, thanks 
18:24:22  <stevenknight> later 
18:24:25  *      stevenknight has quit ("Leaving")