-
-
Notifications
You must be signed in to change notification settings - Fork 311
IrcLog2009 03 04
Mats Wichmann edited this page Apr 28, 2022
·
3 revisions
17:08:02 * Jason_at_intel (n=[chatzill@bementil-116.illinois.prairieinet.net](mailto:chatzill@bementil-116.illinois.prairieinet.net)) has joined #scons
17:13:52 * garyo-home (n=[chatzill@209-6-158-38.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com](mailto:chatzill@209-6-158-38.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com)) has joined #scons
17:24:15 * [GregNoel](GregNoel) is no longer marked as being away
17:24:17 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Hi, Gary; I'm here, too; we can start as soon as Steven arrives
17:24:26 <garyo-home> Hi, Greg.
17:25:03 <Jason_at_intel> hi all
17:25:09 <garyo-home> Hi, Jason.
17:25:12 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I see you've been marking up the spreadsheet; good work.
17:25:25 <garyo-home> Just barely in time :-)
17:25:45 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Better than trying to do it on the fly.
17:26:04 <garyo-home> yup
17:32:04 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Where are you, Steven?
17:34:47 <garyo-home> Since Steven's not here yet, Greg I'll ask you about 2357 and [ListLike](ListLike). Is that mostly like CLVar?
17:35:48 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Mostly, but the devil is in the details. I'm proposing that once you mark a variable as list-like, it can't be overridden by assignment.
17:36:14 <garyo-home> That sounds cool, is it doable in python?
17:36:40 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> (And I'm proposing a newCLVar class with slightly different semantics)
17:36:55 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Well, it's doable, but I don't yet know about fast.
17:37:24 <Jason_at_intel> Can i ask what teh point of CLVar is ?
17:37:36 <garyo-home> I do like the env.[ListLike](ListLike)(key) rather than env['KEY'] = CLVar()
17:38:22 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> My thought was to make _dict a class rather than a dict, and then use property() to catch the assignments.
17:38:33 <garyo-home> CLVar is a list that uses Split() to split an initial string along
17:38:35 <garyo-home> white-space arguments, and similarly to split any strings that get
17:38:36 <garyo-home> added. This allows us to Do the Right Thing with Append() and
17:38:38 <garyo-home> Prepend() (as well as straight Python foo = env['VAR'] + 'arg1
17:38:39 <garyo-home> arg2') regardless of whether a user adds a list or a string to a
17:38:41 <garyo-home> command-line construction variable.
17:38:42 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I've mocked up something that _almost_ works, but I haven't timed it.
17:39:11 <garyo-home> Greg: I see, that sounds workable (not that I understand the details)
17:39:41 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Neither to I; that's why it _almost_ works. {;-}
17:39:42 <Jason_at_intel> ahh.. I have been just using it as a list .. ie env['LINKFLAGS'].extend([stuff...])
17:39:43 <garyo-home> Greg: notice that CLVar already has quoting issues. Quoting rears its ugly head again!
17:40:28 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Yep, newCLVar is part of the [SubstQuoteEscape](SubstQuoteEscape), et.al., proposal
17:40:37 <garyo-home> Jason: part of the problem is that not everything is a CLVar, and the other part as Greg said is that assigning to it kills the CLVarness.
17:40:43 <garyo-home> Greg: good.
17:41:27 <Jason_at_intel> I see, will this require python 3.0 ( the need to use properties)
17:41:40 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2.2
17:41:55 <Jason_at_intel> 2.2 has properties?
17:42:06 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> yup
17:42:08 <Jason_at_intel> must have missed that
17:42:26 <Jason_at_intel> learn something new.. how do you say it?
17:42:37 <sohail> doesn't Python have the <ins>assign</ins> function
17:42:54 <sohail> or not
17:42:56 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> sohail, not on variables
17:42:58 * sohail goes back to idling
17:43:22 <garyo-home> Hi Sohail!
17:43:37 <sohail> hi garyo-home !
17:43:42 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Steven, where are you?
17:43:55 <garyo-home> the $64,000 question.
17:43:59 * sohail is actually now being called to DINNER!!!!!!!! bbl
17:44:59 <garyo-home> If Steven doesn't show up, should we just enter the consensus ones for now and reconvene later in the week?
17:48:00 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> garyo-home, re Steven, yes, let's whip through what we can.
17:48:43 * [GregNoel](GregNoel) brb
17:48:43 <garyo-home> Greg: yes, it's getting late, let's just accept the obvious ones.
17:49:06 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 1752 is first; brb
17:49:55 <garyo-home> 1752: not obvious, but everyone seems to say 2.x p3 stevenknight so that's it.
17:50:49 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> (I'm back) done
17:51:06 <garyo-home> 2124: azverkan ok w/ you Greg?
17:51:08 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2124: TaskmasterNG should make it easy to use worker threads for something like this, but it should be selectable, since it's not needed on a Real Operating System(TM)
17:51:32 <garyo-home> worker threads may be faster in all cases though.
17:51:40 <garyo-home> anyway, 2.x p3 azverkan?
17:51:46 <Jason_at_intel> what is the issue here?
17:52:02 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Yes, Brandon should be fine, although we should check with him, since he took so long to research it.
17:52:04 <garyo-home> Jason: you'll have to read it, it's complicated.
17:52:22 <garyo-home> race conditions.
17:52:22 <Jason_at_intel> ok.. have threading background ( to much of it)
17:52:40 <garyo-home> you'll love reading the bug report then :-)(
17:52:55 <garyo-home> ok, let's say 2124 is done then.
17:52:46 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 1594, 1849 consensus +java
17:53:03 <garyo-home> greg: agreed.
17:53:25 <garyo-home> 1874: I'll document it, why not.
17:53:37 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done, more power to you
17:53:43 <garyo-home> anytime p5 garyo
17:54:04 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 1905, I think it needs a higher priority if it's going in future.
17:54:10 <garyo-home> 1905: is [StarMerge](StarMerge) needed for your idea, or does it just make it better?
17:54:38 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I think it should be a separate issue (in fact, split in three)
17:54:47 <garyo-home> If it's yours you can pick a priority.
17:54:56 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> p2 then; done
17:55:26 <garyo-home> 1970: I don't have ideas on the keyword name yet
17:55:38 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 1970, I think we need Steven for this one
17:55:43 <garyo-home> ok, leave it.
17:55:49 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> next time it is
17:56:09 <garyo-home> 2153: steven 1.3/2.0/2.1 p2, pick one?
17:56:26 <garyo-home> I presume he means try for 1.3, else ...
17:56:35 <Jason_at_intel> I think this is part of the VS revamp
17:56:44 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I like 2.1 or even 2.2, since 1.3 is already too full and 2.0 is just for the conversion
17:56:47 <garyo-home> 2153? I don't think so
17:56:55 <garyo-home> Greg: agreed.
17:56:58 <garyo-home> 2.1 is fine.
17:57:02 <Jason_at_intel> it effect the mslink
17:57:07 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
17:57:21 <garyo-home> mslink uses it, but it's its own separate thing really.
17:57:42 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2288, invalid, consensus
17:57:42 <Jason_at_intel> agreed on that.. I guess patches show it can be worked around
17:57:59 <garyo-home> 2288 invalid
17:58:23 <Jason_at_intel> 2288 is a misunderstand of what Install() does
17:58:23 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2291, need Steven, since he's the 'compat' expert
17:58:55 <garyo-home> 2291: defer
17:59:02 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
17:59:28 <garyo-home> 2351: Greg you're right it hasn't bit anyone that we know of, but still it's really wrong.
17:59:52 <Jason_at_intel> windows is case insentitive, but
17:59:58 <Jason_at_intel> case preserving
18:00:13 <garyo-home> I think all it needs is a _dict that has the right semantics.
18:00:15 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> True, but 2.x is _very_ crowded; we have to start cutting some
18:00:19 <Jason_at_intel> if the case is lost certain programs can get upset
18:00:40 <garyo-home> jason: right, preserve the case, just case-fold the comparisons.
18:00:58 <garyo-home> Greg: I see your point.
18:01:20 <garyo-home> Maybe you're right, 3.x is OK.
18:01:36 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I don't have a WAG about how much effort it would take, so I'm erring on the conservative side
18:01:36 <garyo-home> Wish we had more devs.
18:01:59 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> garyo-home, concur, more devs needed badly
18:01:56 <garyo-home> A half a day here, half a day there adds up to a lot.
18:02:17 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> "A million here, a million there..."
18:02:25 <garyo-home> :-)
18:02:36 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Let's defer it
18:02:44 <garyo-home> I'm ok w/ that
18:02:49 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
18:03:00 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2352, consensus
18:03:06 <garyo-home> 2352 1.3 p2 steven (+vs_revamp)
18:03:28 <Jason_at_intel> Steven is workign on it.. last he said he want to factor out if statements
18:03:32 <Jason_at_intel> talked about how to do it
18:03:36 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Good point, +vs_revamp
18:03:41 <Jason_at_intel> I think he has it under control
18:03:53 <garyo-home> I'll be happy to help retest
18:03:58 <garyo-home> 2353 is really simple
18:04:08 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2353, who?
18:04:33 <garyo-home> me I guess.
18:04:46 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> OK, if you're sure.
18:05:02 <garyo-home> can't be hard, just need to get the time.
18:05:24 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> "Ask me for anything except time..."
18:05:37 <garyo-home> Nice quote, who's that from?
18:05:43 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2.x or 2.1?
18:05:47 <garyo-home> 2.x.
18:05:51 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
18:06:12 <garyo-home> 2354, +toolchain and defer?
18:06:44 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2354, yes: I'll look up what the other toolchain issues are
18:06:53 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> for milestone and priority
18:06:59 <Jason_at_intel> why assume it exists?
18:07:19 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2355, defer
18:07:26 <garyo-home> jason: are you talking about 2355? Yes, defer.
18:07:34 <Jason_at_intel> 54
18:07:41 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
18:07:44 <garyo-home> Sorry, 2354!
18:07:59 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2356, consensus
18:08:06 <Jason_at_intel> yes ... 2355 was quick to resolve
18:08:36 <garyo-home> 2356 agreed.
18:08:46 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
18:08:57 <garyo-home> 2357, Greg I think you're the man here.
18:09:22 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Yeah, I'm afraid so, but it needs a bit of discussion. Let's defer it.
18:09:26 <garyo-home> ok.
18:11:55 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> garyo-home, "anything except time" is Napoleon; missed the question above
18:12:10 <garyo-home> cool.
18:10:01 <garyo-home> 2358: I like the +swig keyword, otherwise 2.1 p2 swig-expert
18:10:23 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2358, +swig, but 2.1 would need a draft choice
18:10:41 <garyo-home> (Might not actually require swig knowledge, just create the dir first or something)
18:10:44 <garyo-home> ok, 2.x?
18:11:02 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> We made the +java future p1; I think that's reasonable; pull them in when the expert shows up
18:11:51 <garyo-home> usually I'd agree, but this issue may not really need a swig expert.
18:13:28 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I think it does require SWIG knowledge. The last patch I almost applied would have made a mess, but somebody showed up who knew that the .wrap.c file was created only if there was a certain option in the .i file
18:11:54 <Jason_at_intel> agreed.. the compiler can do different thing here
18:13:59 <garyo-home> hmm, who was that?
18:14:29 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I was looking earlier; I've lost the name.
18:12:48 <garyo-home> for instance, the swig builder could just get a "mkdir -p $OUTDIR" prepended.
18:13:06 <garyo-home> I'm not volunteering, just saying it might work.
18:13:21 <garyo-home> (sorry, $SWIGOUTDIR).
18:14:28 <garyo-home> well anyway, I guess I'm ok with future p1 +swig.
18:15:00 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Your point is good; I'm changing my mind.
18:15:15 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Give it to me as research and I'll try harder to find the name.
18:15:24 <garyo-home> ok, that works for me.
18:15:28 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
18:15:49 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2359, consensus, +java
18:15:56 <garyo-home> yes
18:16:44 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2361 also needs some research, but I don't think I'm the guy
18:16:44 <garyo-home> 2361: my temptation is do nothing and hope toolchain removes this issue.
18:17:12 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> That could work, too, but when are we getting to the toolchain work?
18:17:00 <garyo-home> let's defer that one for tonight.
18:17:18 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> defer works for me
18:17:29 <garyo-home> grumble...
18:17:40 <garyo-home> ok defer for now.
18:17:48 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
18:18:13 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2362, wow, last one; it really helps to do the research in advance...
18:18:11 <garyo-home> 2362: I think Steven is the best one for that.
18:18:15 <garyo-home> So let's defer it.
18:18:22 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
18:18:38 <garyo-home> ok, well done.
18:18:45 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> agree
18:18:50 <garyo-home> I'm guessing Steven forgot about us.
18:19:13 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> maybe; he did update the spreadsheet.
18:19:25 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Let's contact him and see if we can resume tomorrow?
18:19:38 <garyo-home> I think I can do that, especially if it's not too long.
18:19:53 <garyo-home> I'll email him and cc release.
18:20:06 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Should be short; I think we deferred only five issues.
18:20:15 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> works for me
18:20:19 <Jason_at_intel> ok
18:20:35 <garyo-home> good. Hope to see you then.
18:20:59 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> yep, see you then. I'm off to do some shopping for a party
18:21:13 <garyo-home> have fun!
18:22:10 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> It ought to be; it's a surprise anniversary party; over 50 people from all over the country are attending, unknown to the victims
18:22:31 * [GregNoel](GregNoel) has been marked as being away
18:22:49 <garyo-home> Greg: wow, sounds amazing.
18:23:04 <Jason_at_intel> hope the paty goes well
18:25:57 * stevenknight (n=[stevenkn@c-67-164-61-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net](mailto:stevenkn@c-67-164-61-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)) has joined #scons
18:26:07 <stevenknight> anyone still here?
18:26:41 <garyo-home> Hi Steven!
18:26:42 <Jason_at_intel> yep.. we are still here .. greg might have left
18:26:45 <stevenknight> hey
18:26:54 <garyo-home> see my email just now?
18:27:05 <stevenknight> sorry for not being here, the wife has a migraine today
18:27:13 <stevenknight> no, haven't checked email yet
18:27:19 <garyo-home> ouch, they are really awful.
18:27:34 <garyo-home> My daughter gets them once in a while.
18:27:35 <Jason_at_intel> ya... my wife gets them... I understand
18:27:38 <stevenknight> i had to pick up the afternoon duties
18:27:46 <stevenknight> child pick up, etc.
18:27:57 <garyo-home> understood. Can we finish up the bug party tomorrow night at the usual time?
18:28:06 <stevenknight> that should work
18:28:07 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Wait,
18:28:12 <stevenknight> hey greg
18:28:16 <stevenknight> at least for me
18:28:36 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Hi, just happened to be passing through the office to grab something and saw you had arrived.
18:29:03 <stevenknight> yeah, family matters intervened; sorry
18:29:49 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> It's OK; I can stay a few more minutes, but I need to leave shortly. I didn't keep a list of the issues we bypassed; did you, Gary?
18:30:18 <garyo-home> Greg: no, but we can find them quickly I think.
18:31:17 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 1970?
18:31:58 <garyo-home> My defer list from the irc log: 2291, 2351, 2354, 2355, 2357, 2361, 2362
18:32:28 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2291, then
18:32:34 <Jason_at_intel> 2352?
18:32:39 <garyo-home> oh yes, 1970 too.
18:32:57 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> More than I thought...
18:33:15 <garyo-home> no 2352 is done.
18:33:28 <garyo-home> I can do a few now.
18:33:36 <garyo-home> How about 1970 as you suggested.
18:34:08 <garyo-home> it needs a keyword.
18:34:44 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> getting_started seems too long
18:35:07 <garyo-home> newbie not very flattering
18:35:22 <garyo-home> easy_contribution too long
18:35:30 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> small seems diminutive {;-}
18:35:45 <stevenknight> "initial"
18:35:49 <stevenknight> nah
18:35:59 <stevenknight> "starter"
18:36:01 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> starter? startup? initial isn't bad
18:36:07 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> jinx
18:36:05 <garyo-home> actually I kind of like "small". It's nonthreatening.
18:36:08 <garyo-home> Or starter.
18:36:26 <stevenknight> "easy" ...
18:36:34 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Oooohhhh, yes
18:36:43 <garyo-home> yes, that's good.
18:36:48 <garyo-home> +easy
18:36:57 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done; now about the issue?
18:37:53 <garyo-home> what about it?
18:38:12 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> anytime and draft pick don't fit together
18:38:48 <garyo-home> I think anytime and +easy shouldn't need an owner.
18:38:52 <Jason_at_intel> just read..2124... have feedback on it if you want it ( it is not install())
18:39:14 <stevenknight> agree w/gary
18:39:19 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> it needs a schedule, so we're forced to pick someone, or a person, so they can plan it themselves
18:39:27 <stevenknight> for tracking purposes, create a "draftpick" user?
18:39:49 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> uh. issues@scons?
18:39:42 <stevenknight> if it needs a schedule, is it really "anytime?"
18:40:06 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> that's my point
18:40:08 <garyo-home> any placeholder is ok w/ me for this type.
18:40:42 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I don't like it, but I'll go with anytime+easy and we'll see how it works. Contact Jean anyway.
18:40:47 <stevenknight> [GregNoel](GregNoel): i'm not following you
18:40:55 <garyo-home> Jason: you're right 2124 is not Install, it's an OS handle inheritance race condition.
18:41:05 <Jason_at_intel> it is not the OS
18:41:20 <Jason_at_intel> we had it out with MS on this... it something else
18:41:39 <Jason_at_intel> we have this problem as of today with something completely different
18:41:41 <garyo-home> ? If you have info, please add it to the ticket. Of course we want to hear about it too.
18:41:54 <Jason_at_intel> sure
18:41:59 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> my point is that if you just say "anytime" and don't assign someone, it will simply keep floating out into the future
18:42:16 <garyo-home> Greg: isn't that the point?
18:42:20 <stevenknight> right, and isn't that precisely what we're trying to do?
18:42:29 <stevenknight> have a pool of "easy" issues that don't have names assigned
18:42:39 <stevenknight> as an encouragement for others to get involved?
18:42:48 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> If that's what you want, I'll go with it.
18:43:02 <stevenknight> okay, let's go with that and see how it works
18:43:19 <stevenknight> if it ends up with some unforeseen downside, we can adjust
18:43:15 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2291?
18:45:51 <garyo-home> Steven, 2291 needs your comments.
18:46:08 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2291, my point is that we probably can't do a compat module without adding C code
18:46:42 <garyo-home> Greg: good point.
18:47:43 <stevenknight> is ctypes => types like cProfile => profile?
18:48:02 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I don't think so
18:48:20 <Jason_at_intel> I thought ctypes was a way to call a C functions in a DLL or .so
18:48:20 <garyo-home> no, ctypes is C types wrapped for python.
18:48:25 <stevenknight> ah
18:48:41 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> plus calling sequences
18:48:58 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> so you can wrap a function call with fairly arbitrary arguments
18:49:11 <garyo-home> right, all that stuff. It's very general & useful
18:49:10 <stevenknight> okay, the C implementation necessity probably suggests it's not a good compat candidate
18:49:17 <stevenknight> but I'm flying a little blind here (obviously)
18:49:28 <garyo-home> right, couldn't make a compat version of it.
18:49:31 <garyo-home> no way.
18:49:56 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> [http://docs.python.org/library/ctypes.html](http://docs.python.org/library/ctypes.html)
18:50:07 <Jason_at_intel> I am confused... to use ctypes you have to make a c binary?
18:50:39 <garyo-home> Jason: by "compat" we mean could we emulate it in older python versions?
18:51:17 <garyo-home> For 2291 I think we should do nothing.
18:51:20 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I assume we'd want to make this change eventually, but not until 2.5 is the floor, since that's where ctypes becomes standard
18:51:19 <Jason_at_intel> oh.. I agree fully with that.. you would have to add the Ctype as a extra to the install
18:51:28 <Jason_at_intel> much like Ipython did
18:51:40 <garyo-home> Greg: agreed.
18:51:47 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> So where do you want to put it? Future p1?
18:51:59 <garyo-home> Seems reasonable.
18:52:31 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Maybe with a keyword of something like floor2.5?
18:52:37 <stevenknight> future p1 sounds good
18:52:44 <stevenknight> hmm, just looking at the patch
18:52:53 <garyo-home> I was just thinking that (keyword floor2.5)
18:53:01 <stevenknight> to do a compat implementation we don't have to support absolutely everything
18:53:17 <stevenknight> in some cases we intentionally support only enough to emulate what we use
18:53:20 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> All it takes is one
18:53:37 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> C file, that is
18:53:55 <stevenknight> so the key question: is there anything in the patch that's not tractable in pure Python?
18:54:00 <garyo-home> ... such as ctypes.cdll.msvcrt._get_osfhandle.
18:54:04 <Jason_at_intel> is there any hope to support iron python?
18:54:15 <Jason_at_intel> Will Ctypes work there?
18:54:30 <stevenknight> good question re: iron python
18:54:47 <stevenknight> i'd actually really like it if we'd run under iron python *and* jython
18:55:33 <garyo-home> side issue. For 2291 can we say future p1 +floor2.5?
18:55:44 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I'll go for that
18:56:24 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Steven?
18:56:32 <stevenknight> concur
18:56:36 <stevenknight> still looking at code
18:56:57 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done, and I'll make it depend on 2124
18:56:50 <stevenknight> this is contained enough that I think we can do it with a compat layer
18:57:16 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> If so, we can review it again
18:57:32 <stevenknight> okay
18:57:57 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2353, yes?
18:58:08 <garyo-home> 2351: 2.x or 3.x? Greg is worried (correctly) that 2.x is crowded
18:58:36 <garyo-home> so minor things like this should be pushed to 3.x.
18:58:39 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> oops, yes, 2251; skipped one
18:58:38 <garyo-home> Steven?
18:59:05 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> or 2.x p4 or p5
18:59:28 <stevenknight> you mean 2351 i hope? I don't see 2251 on the list
18:59:33 <garyo-home> yes 2351
18:59:47 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2351
19:00:06 * [GregNoel](GregNoel) isn't doing any mondo typing tonight...
18:59:49 <stevenknight> i'd prefer 2.x, especially if it's going to be p5 anyway
18:59:59 <stevenknight> yes, it's crowded
19:00:23 <stevenknight> but i'd at least like to consider it in the 2.x time frame
19:00:38 <stevenknight> and make a conscious decision to push it farther out when we (re-)categorize all the 2.x issues
19:00:41 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2.x p4 or p5 is fine with me
19:00:50 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> yes, I agree
19:00:54 <stevenknight> okay, 2.x p4 then
19:00:56 <garyo-home> ok too.
19:00:59 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
19:01:13 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2353
19:02:00 <stevenknight> 2353: +easy?
19:02:09 <stevenknight> eh, it's a patch...
19:02:24 <stevenknight> is the question who?
19:02:41 <garyo-home> I thought I volunteered for 2353.
19:02:46 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Wait, didn't you take this one, Gary? 2.x p2?
19:03:01 <garyo-home> Next on my list was 2354.
19:03:16 <stevenknight> 2354: consensus +toolchain
19:03:42 <garyo-home> ok, right.
19:03:48 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Ah, I'm blind, it's 2355
19:03:47 <garyo-home> 2355 then.
19:04:03 <stevenknight> k
19:04:16 <garyo-home> 2355 is -j vs. chdir
19:04:47 <stevenknight> decision point: do we just doc the limitation (as suggested by the issue)
19:05:01 <stevenknight> and open another one for greg's SideEffect() suggestion?
19:04:50 <Jason_at_intel> I would like a warning
19:05:29 <stevenknight> Jason_at_intel: agree, a warning in this case would be good, too
19:06:10 <Jason_at_intel> If you don't warn people will think SCons is broken with -j.. even if it is not SCon's fault
19:06:41 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> The SideEffect() needs some research, but a separate issue is a good idea
19:07:09 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Let's make 2355 cause a warning; make a new one for SideEffect()
19:07:27 <garyo-home> ok, so make the current issue 2.x p4 stevenknight, and a new issue for the SideEffect idea?
19:07:39 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> done
19:08:10 <garyo-home> I think 2357 is next
19:08:31 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Yeah. I need to explain [ListLike](ListLike)() again...
19:09:01 <garyo-home> (We were just going to assign this to Greg but it needs discussion first.)
19:09:02 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> The idea is that marking a variable as list-like means that it survives even assignment
19:09:46 <stevenknight> ?
19:10:03 <stevenknight> you mean even if I did env['CCFLAGS'] = 'foo'
19:10:14 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> yep
19:10:25 <stevenknight> an original [ListLike](ListLike) value of CCFLAGS would *not* be overwritten?
19:10:54 <Jason_at_intel> that would require a env.Replace() ?
19:10:57 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> it would be reset to ['foo'] but it's still list-like
19:11:20 <stevenknight> wait, i think i get it
19:11:33 <stevenknight> it's marking certain variables as always being treated as lists
19:11:57 <stevenknight> so that the "list like" behavior is a function of its semantic meaning in the environment
19:12:06 <stevenknight> not of the fact that its value is a specific object
19:12:02 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> yes, exactly, it's mentioned in the Subst... page, but not detailed
19:12:26 <stevenknight> agree conceptually
19:12:45 <Jason_at_intel> is there a prototype of this code?
19:12:46 <stevenknight> different variables actually do have different semantics
19:12:52 <stevenknight> based on what they "mean"
19:12:55 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> yes
19:13:12 <stevenknight> being smarter about that strikes me as a Good Thing
19:13:19 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> yes
19:13:28 <Jason_at_intel> where? and can i give it a test run for you
19:13:39 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> it also makes the tokenizing, usw., work better
19:13:33 <stevenknight> but also potentially dangerous if we don't define things carefully
19:13:54 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> yes, potentially dangerous
19:14:01 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> as are all good tools
19:14:26 <Jason_at_intel> risk is what makes life fun :-)
19:15:23 <stevenknight> i could do with a little less fun lately... :-)
19:15:27 <garyo-home> Greg, can you prototype it?
19:16:21 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I have a very rough prototype that works _most_ of the time, but I'm still trying to figure out why it's only "most".
19:17:01 <Jason_at_intel> glad to look at it .. if you can share it
19:17:10 <garyo-home> That seems like a good next step.
19:17:16 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> In my copious spare time, I can try to prepare something to show how it works, but the basic idea is simple:
19:17:43 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> convert env._dict[key] into env.vars.key
19:18:16 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> then property() will Do The Right Thing
19:18:57 <garyo-home> in that case key has to be a python identifier, but perhaps that's already the case.
19:19:04 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> yes
19:19:43 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> [a-zA-Z_]\w* to be precise
19:20:31 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> In any event, we're spending too much time on this
19:20:54 <garyo-home> yes, send it around, but for now let's move on.
19:20:58 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> We should either defer it or try to figure out what the next step is
19:21:12 <garyo-home> research, greg.
19:21:16 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> works
19:21:29 <stevenknight> +1
19:21:43 <garyo-home> I think 2361 is next?
19:21:46 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2361
19:22:31 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I think it needs some research to see exactly what he thought he was trying to do, but I don't think I'm the guy
19:22:38 <garyo-home> Greg & I are hoping toolchain rework will eliminate this one
19:23:04 <stevenknight> yep
19:23:16 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> true, but I'd like to know what he thought he was doing
19:23:20 <stevenknight> but it would be good to document the restrictions in the meantime
19:23:24 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> yes
19:23:32 <stevenknight> he just happens to be using a variable he named "options"
19:23:51 <garyo-home> I think you're right, and we reserve that name.
19:24:00 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I _think_ so, but I'd like to be sure
19:24:04 <stevenknight> ...without telling anyone... :-(
19:24:08 <stevenknight> agree re: being sure
19:24:34 <garyo-home> There's a lot about Tools that is imperfectly documented right now. I'm not even sure this is where to start.
19:24:34 <stevenknight> i'll take it if no one else wants it
19:24:48 <stevenknight> and ask him for a copy of his module
19:24:53 <garyo-home> ok, thanks
19:25:11 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> OK, but don't spend any significant time on it; he may be able to just tell you
19:25:21 <garyo-home> agreed
19:25:27 <stevenknight> yes
19:25:37 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> last one, 2362
19:25:50 <garyo-home> +easy
19:26:20 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> hmmmm
19:27:12 <garyo-home> Steven, I was hoping you'd take that one.
19:27:20 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> I'll agree to marking it easy, but let's put it in the queue to get done
19:27:40 <garyo-home> 2.x p4 stevenknight +easy? ???
19:27:43 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> 2.x p4 is fine with me
19:27:53 <stevenknight> hey, i'm easy but i'm not cheap
19:27:58 <garyo-home> :-)
19:27:59 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> {;-}
19:28:14 <stevenknight> 2.x p4 stevenknight is fine w/me
19:28:22 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> OK, done
19:28:23 <garyo-home> ok, great. We did them all!
19:28:34 <stevenknight> wow, nice work
19:28:40 <garyo-home> It's late here on the early coast.
19:28:41 <stevenknight> and special thanks for hanging out late after i showed up
19:28:45 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> Yes, and now I've got 30 mins to do the shopping....
19:28:51 <[GregNoel](GregNoel)> bye, cul
19:28:53 <garyo-home> ok, bye all.
19:29:02 * garyo-home has quit ("[ChatZilla](ChatZilla) 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]")
20:57:34 * stevenknight has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")