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ruleant: meeting in 1 minute, see preparation :
nijel: hi all, everybody ready? :-)
Marc9: I am
ruleant: hi all, I'm ready
zixtor: Hello all.
nijel: okay, sounds good, so let's start
nijel: first point: Direct access to db/table
Marc9: Yes, how can this work without a token parameter?
nijel: db/table are whitelisted and it used to redirect to default page for table/database when these were set
Marc9: without a token?
ruleant: I assume (didn't test it) that you are redirected to the login page when you don't have token?
nijel: yes, these two variables are IMHO still whitelisted
Marc9: So, probably due to the new 4.0 URLs, it no longer works. Do we still feel that it's an important feature?
ibennetch: I do think it's worth having
chanaka777: Yes, me too
nijel: simply if db/table was set, the proper content was loaded:
nijel: I also think it's useful
mynetx: Question being, how to fix it?
nijel: I think setting target using similar logic would work -
nijel: anyway I think we agree to fix this and we can discuss technical stuff on devel list, right?
nijel: next point: Handling js error reports
Marc9: Yes, did someone volunteer to scan and address these reports?
- zixtor se odpojil (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
nijel: when I last tried, the connection to sf.net did not work and I gave up ... so we should probably fix this first, then triaging will not be that hard
Marc9: nijel is there a bug entry about this connection problem?
nijel: I think I've only asked on mailing list, will file one
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mynetx: (How can a report be assigned to an existing SF bug issue?)
Marc9: I would expect someone fluent in js, could do the triaging at least once per week.
Marc9: Once per month? :)
zixtor: I could help with that :)
nijel: great, we have a volunteer :-)
nijel: okay for me
zixtor: Also, are all bugs relating to error reporting fixed? I mean is it working ok? from the mentors?
zixtor: ok for me
Marc9: zixtor, well, we already have 34 entries in the site
zixtor: Great :) will check out soon
nijel: but most of these are duplicates, so it's not that bad
nijel: but let's move on
Marc9: zixtor, congratulations on your new title :)
nijel: next point: Ideas for GSoC 2014
zixtor: Marc, Thanks
Marc9: Ok, what do you think about my entry "Structure tools" ?
ruleant: Central list of columns sounds intresting
zixtor: Seems useful to me
nijel: sounds interesting
mynetx: > are all bugs relating to error reporting fixed?
mynetx: > (How can a report be assigned to an existing SF bug issue?)
ruleant: just wondering : if you change a column definition in the central list, does it affect the databases where that column is used?
Marc9: ruleant, ideally it should
nijel: mynetx: no and there is IMHO currently no way
Marc9: Ok, but the central list is not a big enough project, so what about normalization ?
ruleant: I'm not familiar with 3NF, I'm afraid
zixtor: I am not acquainted with the third normal form ;)
ruleant: would this be similar to the tool that suggest column types based on the data in the table?
Marc9: In short, it frees the structure from anomalies
zixtor: But anomalies may be desirable sometimes to the user.. so do we enforce it ?
Marc9: ruleant, it's more about the structure (like no repetitive columns, etc)
Marc9: zixtor, it would be an optional tool to use
ruleant: sounds usefull, for those who would like to use it.
chanaka777: yeah, that would really helpful for beginners
nijel: I think it makes sense to have something like that
Marc9: An example of anomaly: an invoice with their items, and the customer's phone number present in each item
Marc9: The customer's phone number should be present only once, in the customer table
Marc9: See my book "Creating MySQL databases" :)
ibennetch: I like the idea. I think the tool can make suggestions and if the user prefers to deviate they don't have to accept them
nijel: (so reason for this project is that Marc can increase sales volume of his books :-))
chanaka777: yeah, normalization forms basically helps to avoid data redundancy
Marc9: So it seems that this idea (with these two subprojects) are accepted?
ruleant: so, the tool would suggest/check to move the tel-number column to the customer/other database?
Marc9: nijel, on the contrary, the tool could decrease the book sales ....
mynetx: (Marc9: What about "Mastering phpMyAdmin" —any update for 4.x?)
Marc9: mynetx: ask this to Packt Publishings (they have refused)
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zixtor: Marc, So can we have exact deliverables if we include it is in the project list ? pertaining to 3NF separate from 1NF 2NF
Marc9: ruleant, exactly
ibennetch: Also, your other suggestion for input validation would probably go well with some ideas I've been collecting (but haven't yet added to the list); basically there are some aspects of the user interface that could use polishing and those ideas all go well together.
Marc9: zixtor, I think a good designer has to reach 3NF anyway
pepsicola1: can someon eplease help me with mysql, I Accidently set my max_question to 3 and cant seem to log into mysql server
zixtor: Marc, agreed
ibennetch: pepsicola1: hello. We're in the middle of the developer meeting here for the next thirty minutes, so the channel will be quite busy until then. Although sorry, I do not know the answer to your question offhand anyway.
Marc9: ibennetch, please create a feature request about input validation then, and add it to your collection of ideas
Marc9: Other opinions about input validation?
nijel: collecting some UI improvements might be good project as well
ibennetch: Marc9: sure thing.
nijel: I'm for input validation
mynetx: Marc9: How to convince them best—using which channel?
ibennetch: yes, I'd like to go back to the book issue, Packt doesn't see the value in an update?
Marc9: nijel, I have already a bunch of interface improvements collection
mynetx: pepsicola1: Take a look here:
Marc9: ibennetch, I am not at liberty to discuss it
Marc9: ibennetch, but on their website, you can suggest a title if you want
nijel: Marc9: what I meant is really just UI/client side improvements
ibennetch: Okay, if I happen to see the value in continuing to update one of their titles, I may decide to let them know ;)
Marc9: nijel, OK
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nijel: any other comments to this topic?
ibennetch: nijel: yeah, I agree, I've got a few ideas that I haven't been able to write out in to the ideas list yet, so if you see something you would like improved, feel free to jump ahead of me. Not sure if it will fit nicely in to Marc's interface improvement project or add too much work, but we'll figure that out closer to GSoC I imagine.
zixtor: nijel, reaching a consensus on many UI improvements remains difficult though
ibennetch: I'm ready to move on :)
nijel: okay, let's see what we will collect and then structure it into projects...
Marc9: nijel, ideally these suggestions should be in the rfe list
nijel: next topic: Wiki preparation for GSoC 2014
ruleant: I volunteer to update the wiki
nijel: great, that was fast :-)
nijel: I guess nobody objects :-)
nijel: next topic: Advertisement on wiki
Marc9: I have a question about GSoC:
Marc9: who will be the org admin?
nijel: I can do it
Marc9: wow, that was fast :)
nijel: If somebody news wants to get in to learn things, he's welcome too :-)
zixtor: Yes, as an observer I would like it..
nijel: okay, perfect
ruleant: I'd like to be backup again
nijel: okay, I think this setup can work
nijel: so back to the topic: Advertisement on wiki
Marc9: (We'll have to talk about who will mentor, at the next meeting)
ibennetch: I'm fine with filling the remaining ~3 month agreement.
Marc9: me too
Marc9: Anyway, the new server is due .. .when?
nijel: Probably next week
Marc9: 20 minutes...
nijel: Basically everything is ready, but I'll be for extended weekend in Budapest, so I don't want to mess up with the server before.
ruleant: fine by me, but does the agreement of ooshirts conflicts with the conservancy rules
Marc9: I don't think so, since we point to their home page
nijel: I don't think so (there is just a link to a domain and no evaluation or comparing in the text)
ruleant: ok, will we allow sponsors on the wiki afterwards?
ibennetch: If there's concern, a quick inquiry with Conservancy will set our minds at ease. I can do so if you wish.
Marc9: ruleant, I believe we decided against
nijel: ruleant: no
nijel: this is just a temporary to keep the agreement I've made in the past
ruleant: just asking because, some (future) sponsors might ask the same question? ;)
nijel: okay, so everybody agrees?
nijel: we have about 10 minutes left
nijel: next point: Next releases
nijel: I agree with Marc9's suggestions
ibennetch: I think the proposal written by Marc is good. Publish 4.1.0 final soon, and announce 6 month security updates on 4.0.10. Perhaps we can document a generic plan on which versions we plan to support for how long, but that can be dealt with on the mailing list.
Marc9: I would also remove the download link for 3.5.x (they remain downloadable from sf.net)
nijel: ibennetch: Indeed documenting this in generic way is good idea as well
ibennetch: I'll take responsiblity for that and will move discussion to the mailing list due to lack of time here
nijel: Marc9: okay to remove it after we stop supporting it (we've IMHO promised support till end of the year, am I right)
Marc9: nijel, yes that's what I meant
* Marc9 is ready to move on
nijel: next point: Testing and documenting browser support
ruleant: agreed to 4.1 final, security support for 4.0 until 1Jul2014 and removing the 3.5 links
Marc9: I have a big question: any volunteer for browser testing?
nijel: this should be ideally automated using BrowserStack, though I failed to find time in setting this up...
* Marc9 is wondering how an automated testing system can be as extensive as manual testing
nijel: of course it depends on having selenium testcases, but IMHO it's better to do the testcases and rely on automation than on doing manual tests for every release
Marc9: for example, would it detect the Enter bug in drop-downs for IE 10 ?
nijel: it depends on the testcases ... but in manual testing it's also really easy to miss something like this
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Marc9: In the past, we have relied on users for this
ruleant: I agree with nijel, automated tests will not catch everything, but at elast they test some things that might be overlooked by a manual tester
chanaka777: nijel, it's not free right ?
ruleant: Marc9 : a combination of both is ideal ;)
Marc9: ruleant, yes, but we still need manpower to set up the tests :/
ruleant: Marc9 : true
nijel: indeed both needs somebody to do/implement it :-)
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nijel: intergrating BrowserStack into ci.phpmyadmin.net is still on my todo list, but I have no clue when I can get to it :-(
ibennetch: Isn't BrowserStack the one that we got free access to thanks to mynetx?
nijel: yes, we have free access for automated tests
Marc9: ibennetch yes
chanaka777: great :)
* Marc9 is free to continue the meeting
nijel: I'll have to leave soon...
ibennetch: So we just need someone to configure BrowserStack for the tests we wish to run. This seems like something I can look at and at least report back to the list on further details if I have trouble.
ibennetch: (or questions)
Marc9: let's take one minute to discuss "new messages in a bugfix version" plesae
Marc9: ibennetch, I guess you'll need access to the server then
nijel: ibennetch: once I migrate the ci server, you will have access there
ibennetch: Okay, let's wait for the new server and get going there, then.
nijel: Okay, so last topic for today - new messages in a bugfix version
ruleant: I think it is a good idea to update the messages, should the translation just point to the QA_4_* branch?
Marc9: I also think we can add messages for bugfix, in the current 4.1 branch on Weblate
nijel: I think we can add them if necessary, though we have to expect that not all translators will catch up and it might be untranslated for few releases.
Marc9: nijel, yes but this is true also before each release...
Marc9: I meant, before a .0 release
nijel: yes, but while making beta's and rc's we get more attention from translators
ruleant: OK, I misread, I would be careful adding new messages (only if they are necesarry or if they improve the message, fe in case of a typo)
Marc9: ruleant, the alternative is postpone a bugfix, or have two versions of a bugfix
Marc9: we have new messages for a bugfix in the current pull request by Gemorroj
ibennetch: I'm cautious about adding messages for bugfixes, but neither alternative is any better, so I accept that it's the best solution available.
nijel: I agree with ibennetch here
Marc9: These are messages for the replication UI, so it's not too bad if someone sees them in English
ibennetch: Also, i think the number of times we'll add new messages for a bugfix are minimal; usually a bug fix is for an existing feature which would already have messages. So we can go ahead with this.
Marc9: I understand that we can add messages; anyway it should not happen frequently
nijel: so it seems that we quite agree on this
nijel: I'll have to go now, so in case you want to continue discussion, please append it to log and minutes :-)
ruleant: I agree too
ibennetch: Thanks, see you next time.
Marc9: we can continue a few minutes, ok?
chanaka777: I'm ok
Marc9: Issue: Deprecating the mysql extension
ibennetch: Sure, I'm still here as well
Marc9: How about deprecating this extension? I'm tired of bug reports from users with this old extension?
ibennetch: PHP has depreciated it some time ago I think; we should as well.
zixtor: I agree to depreciate
Marc9: OK, I add the stronger message for 4.2
ruleant: i agree on the stronger message
Marc9: Moving on...
Marc9: In Real Life meeting
ruleant: But when will we drop mysql extension support?
Marc9: ruleant, if 4.2 is only about a stronger message, so 4.3 would remove it
ibennetch: Can one of you update the wiki minutes with these decisions? I must leave in about ten minutes and won't have time until this evening (I'd be happy to do it then)
Marc9: would remove support
***Marc9 will update the wiki
ibennetch: yeah, 4.3 seems good to me
zixtor: Agreed for drop in 4.3
ibennetch: What's in Australia in 2015?
Marc9: ruleant, did you mean Australia with "down under"
ruleant: Marc9 : yes
ruleant: I believe you mentioned this during our meeting in Switzerland
Marc9: It would be a Linux conference then
Marc9: linux.conf.au but it's in Jan 2014
ruleant: yes, but it's a yearly event, so there will probably be one in 2015
Marc9: I don't think we'll have the budget for a team meeting in Australia
ruleant: fair enough
Marc9: Anyway we still haven't received an update from Conservancy about our funds
zixtor: I am missing Australia plan ? it's written LinuxTag on agenda ?
ruleant: we discussed this briefly at Debconf, so I just wanted to bring it up
Marc9: and there is the very difficult issue of discussing about who earns an invitation
ruleant: yes, I agree
Marc9: so I suggest that everyone have a look at linux.conf.au to see first if it would be interesting to go there (for the conference itself)
ibennetch: I must go in about four minutes
Marc9: and we could skip the year 2014 if we make a more costly trip
Marc9: ok so let's end the meeting
Marc9: bye all
chanaka777: have a nice days guys!
ibennetch: I don't see a huge benefit of attending the .au conference over a .us or Europe one.
ruleant: btw : I can't make it to the next meeting, I'm on holiday
ibennetch: Although it would be nice to meet with users from Australia and represent the product there.
ibennetch: ruleant: enjoy!
Marc9: ruleant, good holiday
zixtor: Bye all!